Hojo Legendary Guide/Thoughts

[Acantudonaldson]

This is my first TWC post-
Ive spent about a week playing Hojo on legendary, I'm just about to hit realm divide and i thought id record a few of my thoughts and experiences, as a guide for others (havent seen a hojo guide so far) and for my own benefit, so I better remember what worked to get me this far and can be more confident moving forward.

So, this will be in two parts- first, what I did from the beginning of the game til now, then details on what my map looks like and how I plan to move into realm divide with it.

1-
Hojo has a great starting position. Takedas influence is in the north, and Imagawa in the west, and theres no reason you should have to go to war with either in the beginning of the game unless you choose to, and I thought that would be a bad plan. To the east are a series of unfriendly minor clans, one of which you are immepediatly at war with. Of course you should crush that one asap, moving your army out to attack on turn 1.

Hojo has two provinces- you will want to start crawling east along the coast asap, taking out the clans along the south east coast asap, so you can consolidate early. Maintain good relations with the Takeda and Imagawa- shortly after the game starts you can arrange a marriage with Takeda so try to do that- you want to limit the number of fronts you have to fight.

Your home province has a gold mine in it- upgrade it as soon and often as you can- the 2nd upgrade takes 12 turns so you want to get started early, it adds an insame amount of wealth to the province.

I feel i took too long to meet the other clans through naval or agent contact- so i was only trading with the takeda for a good portion of the game.
IMPORTANT MONEYMAKING TIP: every time you initiate a trade agreement try to demand some money out of it too. Take your time trying to max what theyll give you. Listen to this anecdote- when i met the Chosokabe midway through my game, they were a tiny island nation. I saw they would pay 1000 for trade rights, then upped it to 10,000, and because i was patient realized they would (and did) pay 41,000 koku for the trade. Thats not a typo. Its more like a glitch. Point is be thorough.
Tip part 2- this is super useful in the first few years. Offer the takeda or imagawa or anyone else you arent afraid of 5 turns of access to your lands in exchange for as much cash as theyll pay. This does a lot for your income.

So, taking it slow, building an army but working on econ at the same time, farms markets and roads, youll start to have to fight major clans. This is a problem about 10 turns in and on. The main fight you need to watch is between the oda and imagawa. Every time i played oda wiped out imagawa and ended up on my doorstep. They expanded to be the most major power in my little corner of japan. To deal eith them, you need to play the diplomacy game. Ideally, you want takeda and oda to fight it out. More ideally, you want them to be a near even match. Pick the side of the loser- in my case i sided with takeda.

Some notes on military buildup- you have a blacksmith when you start, this province is where you make samurai(and bomb throwers but more on that in a minute). Keep a few samurai in your army, a few bowman and the rest ashigaru. Do not be aggressive- try and make them initiate every fight. Be EXTREMELY careful about getting a major army caught in a minor fort. If Oda attacks a level1 fort, be sure it will be headed by Nobunaga, who will be a badass, it will be a maxed stack, and those Oda bowmen ashigaru, combined with the Legendary damage bonus will mutiliate your men that are crammed together in the tiny fort. You can't win unless youre in a major castle town. Instead, opt to defend in hills or bridges. An even better idea is to let takeda fight the major battles for you. You can rush in and gobble up undefended towns with tiny raiding foces- take 4 ashigaru bowmen, position them around the fort and kill the defenders without taking losses. Samurai retainers wont leave the fort.

So bow youre playing the great strategic game, trying to keep the two major powers at eachothers throats and hoping the fight doesnt end with a clear victor or a peace. You will have to get involved, but I would not suggest attacking Nobunaga or Shingen without a heavy troop advantage and your Daiymo there too. Remember, you only get one good stack of units, maybe with a 2nd ashigaru support stack, so make it count. If you can defend in a good spot, and want to risk luring them to you, thats a risky but not terrible call. If you can quickly capture a strong castle town and turtle in it, waiting for them to come to you, that works too. The best option is to hope Nobunaga and Shingen wipe eachother out, then snatch up the weaker provinces. Do not, NOT, under any circumstances, declare war on both at once.
When Takeda and I had finished carving up Oda lands, we were both in a strong position and on friendly allied terms. I had maybe 7 provinces, maybe 6, and took some time to focus on my econ. The best strategy involves making gains, then resting and consolidating. Ifyou arent increasing your town wealth by a good amount across the board each turn, you wont be able to sustain yourself in RD when trade is cut off. Farms are vital. Pick important strategic spots and build bigger forts- remember theyre cheaper for Hojo. Also, build them on your western border. You wont have an eastern border for long.

After consolidating, youll need to deal with the superpower(s) in the northeast. Your goal is to draw a line north/south along the takedas eastern border, and take everything east of that. Let me tell you, only having one hostile border makes the game twice as easy. Here is how the map looked at this point, around 20 turns in.

Takeda controls his usual provinces, the Shinanos and a few others, around 7, in central japan. He has a southern coastal city in the Odas old hometown, and a northern, the one west of Echigo. In the east, the Date were crushed by a minor power- the Usegi and their vassal had the strongest setup. The Usegi took a province they set them up to share a border with me, and the next turn they declared war on me.

At this point, youve been playing a balancing game between army and econ- without enough econ you will fail in the later game. Well i got a lucky victory defending against the Usegi daiymo- he died- but i can say confidently his next army he had in reserve was terrifying. It was near a full stack of yari samurai and bowmen. There was nothing i could have done against it. Yet, in a lucky stroke for me, Takeda picked that moment to break off war with the dying Oda (they had 1 province) and Shingen moved into Usegi territory and crushed them. They were also nice enough to leave me the provinces they had so skillfully cleared out. I moved north to Echigo, and having drawn a line up and down japan started moving east. A few tough fights between reasonably matched armies and i had the entire eastern half of the island under my control.

Because Takeda wore himself out in fighting, but i managed to grab most of the conquered provinces, we were about on equal footing. I ended up with about 17 provinces - i forgot to mention im on domination mode - and him with about 9, but the AI being what it is were near matched in army and wealth.
Im not sure how much im allowed to type in one post so ill continue this in a second.

[Acantudonaldson]

So at this point the Takeda have been my BFFs, two of my sons married his daughters, and im training one up to be a good daiymo once mine is gone- he's pushing 50 at this point. My farms are at advanced irrigation across the board, and im trading with everyone on the map. AI armies are terrifying. I know everyone plays Oda because they can finangle an Oda ashigaru army against full stacks of samurai, as full stacks of samurai will be what the AI throws at you- repeatedly. But the Hojo have an interesting alternative.

The crux of my army all game has been gunpowder units. Ive always had bombthrowers, but as much as ive used them i have to say they arent miracle workers on an open battlefield. Cavalry and infantry rush at them, theyre easy targets for archers, you only get 30 or 40 per unit so once a few drop their power diminishes drastically. They are also slow to reload. However, a few times they turned the tide of battle. If you and your enemy are clashing on a flank with infantry, regardless if its samurai/ashigaru or whatever, get a decent angle and lob a few bombs in. You'll kill your own units but not as many, and if youre hitting samurai youre taking out tough units, or if its ashigaru theyll break and run.

Far more important than bomb throwers are your firelaunching catapults (trebuchets? Theyre called mangorels- anyway). This is how to use them-
They are an offensive unit. They wont be near as useful defending. Their accuracy sucks, until you get their upgrade or have a few in the army. However, if you attack an enemy force with these in your army, placed near the front, their range will cover the enemys spawn location- meaning, the AI will just rush right at you. It turns an attack into a defence, so you can position your men and wait, and hopefully get off a few lucky hits on them. Killing 30 men with one bag is satisfying. Also, in attacking a castle, theyre incredible. Position one on high ground, as close as you can, and autotarget the ground in the middle of the castle until youre out of ammo.
Get that bushido accuracy upgrade when you can, its worth it.

So thats how i played the game this far. My army now is 4 bombcatapults, a few samurai( trained from hitachi, with a +accuracy encampent, they do absurd damage), about 10 naginata samurai with armor, then a backup army behind him of mostly katana samurai to rush in on the flank when the battle starts, then a bunch of yari ashigaru just in case and to hold conquered territories.

So part 2- what my map looks like now, and my plan moving forward.
From the eastern tip of japan to thr Shinano provinces, with Echigo being my most northwestern and the Imagawa and Tokugawa territories my most southwestern, I own everything. Thats about 20 provinces. My only border is with the takeda, who control about 9 in the middle of the map. West of that is what truly terrifies me. Theres a clan thats locking down everything else on the mainland, surrounding kyoto and all the way to the western sea, with only tiny ally of his in the middle. He's been warring with a mkre western neighbor but i can see from my minimap the western power is just mopping up. I forget his clan name so ill just call him Western Power WP. The Shoni on Kyushu completely, and the Chosokabe own that otherisland completely. Thats it- theres only about 6 clans left in the game.

Im very close to realm divide but not ready yet. Im researching the next farm upgrade, but thats about 10 turns off. Ill need more money and time to get ready. I realize with the AI the way it is I wont ever have more troops than my enemies. However I might eventually be able to afford two badass roving armies, composed of two or more stacks. Looking at the map im in a good defensive position. I have two Castles (fully upgraded), one in Echigo on the north coast and one guarding my home provinces on the south coast. I dont think itll take much to hold these, and if multiple stacks attack ill make them bleed before they cap either of them. Minor garrisons should be all i need here.

Im only at war with one nation now- the Takeda. Im still trading with everyone else. I'd love to talk about how i crushed Takedas armies when they declared war on me, but its not too relevant. Suffice to say it wqs awesome. It involved a bridge and a flank. Anyway, they are no longer a threat, and im deciding what to do with them. Since theyre my buffer, my plan now is to force a peace and trade agreement- if they build back up ill blitz them, kill the armies and force peace again. In the meantime, im putting into play my economic and strategic plan. It goes like this-

Max out all farms. Upgrade castles in strategic areas along the border with takeda- this is mostly for my peace of mind.
Convert to christianity. I thought a lot about this. Ill have to dissolve my armies to garrison every city in my empire to stop the massive backlash ill take for this. I hope i can survive it- ill need to lower taxes, and build churches to convert asap. If i manage, though, my religion will be a powerful weapon.
Once im done researching my farm tech, switch to the 16 turn 'gunpowder mastery'. Pump out some heavily armored samurai musketmen. Like tokugawa these will be a powerful wing in my armies as i push to Kyoto.

Once the fight starts ill have to manage how ill initiate realm divide. I think first ill convert takeda to christianity. Then, ill blitz the capital, maybe by boat. At the same time, ill have my armies in or near takeda lands- ill quickly kill their armies and force them to be vassals. Ill do this right after realm divide.
The WP will have to go through takeda to get to me, aside from attacking Kyoto. Ill have a huge garrisom there in the attack force i sent in, so he should waste a lot of men scaing the walls. As the WP moves over Takeda, he'll have to deal with a huge christian dissent problem. This will slow him down a lot. Ill pick and choose my battles,try to gain a few big victories against the samurai armies, which are slower to replace, and then push forward. At the same time ill put my missionaries in the WPs territories, cause revolts and dissent wherever I can.

Theres a lot of problems with this. Im uncertain how the vassalage process will go, realm divide being as weird as it is. Im very afraid ill convert to christianity and half my provinces will rebel. And i have a lot of territory vulnerable to attacks by sea, which will almost certainly occur.

Thus- to proceed-
I need a powerful army
I need at least one powerful navy stack, and a few scattered boats for vision
I need a huge economy- luckily my cities have been growing all game
I need all 3 agents, and good ones, running arohnd in western territories
And i need the luck of my ancestors.

If anyone is interested i can get a screencap of the map. As i proceed, unless i humiliate myself, ill update again here.

Hopw this was useful, to some of yall and to me.

[CptAustus]

I think that army you described might be overkill, but I never played Legendary, so I wouldnt know for sure. Keep a few things in mind
a) The Chosokabe arent gonna do anything. They might try a naval invasion every 5 years or so, but thats about it.
b) The big clan you're talking about is the Hattori I think. They are gonna give you a headache one way or the other.
c) I recommend either sending monks to Shoni (since they are christian... right?) and revolting all/most of their provinces, because when they have a non-naval way of attacking you, they'll use all they've got or using the monks to revolt small/weak Hattori (I assume) provinces. Thats not gonna kill them, but it helps.
d) I recommend a katana cav heavy army to take Kyoto, because the Ashikaga usually spam bow samurai or katana samurai.
e) Make a couple of vassals after taking Kyoto, that way they'll never get RD hit. If you didnt take Kai, crush all the other Takeda provinces and then make them your vassal, because they are agressive. Or you can get any other agressive vassal, it doesnt really matter which.
f) Gold accuracy Matchlock samurai are gonna win you pretty much any defensive siege battles, in open battles I try to put down some bamboo screens.
g) Try to make your ninjas scout your main armies, that way WHEN you find the enemy six star generals, you can take them out before the battle.

[Acantudonaldson]

Legendary is great fun- i spend a long time thinking over each move- its like a chess game, you cant take a move back.

I converted to christianity and most everyone declared war on me, now my cities are revolting and im going to have to raid cities to keep my econ up to pay the huge garrisons i need

[Civilopedian]

Great thread, interesting to me since I am also playing a Hojo campaign.

I allied with Imagawa, Takeda and Date. I reduced Ogigyatsu to nothing to get them to ask for peace. Everybody east of Kyoto loved me. All I had to do was take apart Uesugi who eventually dismantled Takeda. Next was Ikko Ikki and eventually Chosokabe declared war and I repelled their attack.

Big accuracy difference between Hojo Mangonels and normal ones I noticed btw. It's nice to get 1k+ kills with them on Darth Mod and I had a lot of fun with formations and field defence. Putting them on high ground and surrounding with spear walls behind which I also had bows, I hid katanas and cav in the trees and ambush flanked. The shape of the deployment was like a big W.

[The Dutch Devil]

Thread moved from Shogun II general discussion to gameplay and strategy discussion.

[Acantudonaldson]

Final update, i changed to christianity and it ruined me. I thought all my cities would get +10 dissent and i could handle that- but it was much worse.

All your cities start to convert slowly, a few percent per day. Each 5% gains a dissent point, up to 50, then it starts dropping back off. Its like 20 turns of needing big garrisons in each town. I went bankrupt fast.

Im restarting and will try converting asap. It was a fun run regardless

[Uohaud]

That's really good job. Good luck!

[Sinan]

That was a good read! I just re-started playing S2 and am doing Hojo at the moment.