Question about character trait variables

[Draxdevourer]

I noticed that the variables LocalPopularity and unrest are both used in the character trait file. Are they different effects? I was under the impression that unrest was just a negative of popularity, and I am wondering if one of them is a non-valid variable?

[Avelon]

Both are valid ... there are good traits which give popularity to increase happiness and also bad traits which add to unrest and decrease happiness

[Draxdevourer]

Both are valid ... there are good traits which give popularity to increase happiness and also bad traits which add to unrest and decrease happiness

You're sure? Both can have both positive and negative values.

[Avelon]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;------------------------------------------
Trait HarshJustice
    Characters family
    NoGoingBackLevel  1 
    AntiTraits LenientJustice, Just

    Level Hard_Justice
        Description Hard_Justice_desc
        EffectsDescription Hard_Justice_effects_desc
        Threshold  1 

        Effect Unrest  1 
        Effect Law  2 

    Level Harsh_Justice
        Description Harsh_Justice_desc
        EffectsDescription Harsh_Justice_effects_desc
        Threshold  3 

        Effect Unrest  2 
        Effect Law  4 

    Level Severe_Justice
        Description Severe_Justice_desc
        EffectsDescription Severe_Justice_effects_desc
        Threshold  7 

        Effect Chivalry -1 
        Effect Unrest  3 
        Effect Law  6

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

;------------------------------------------
Trait Perverted
    Characters family
    ExcludeCultures eastern_european
    AntiTraits Prim

    Level Sexually_Liberated
        Description Sexually_Liberated_desc
        EffectsDescription Sexually_Liberated_effects_desc
        Threshold  1 

        Effect LocalPopularity  1 

    Level Sexually_Eccentric
        Description Sexually_Eccentric_desc
        EffectsDescription Sexually_Eccentric_effects_desc
        Threshold  2 

        Effect LocalPopularity -1 

    Level Sexually_Debauched
        Description Sexually_Debauched_desc
        EffectsDescription Sexually_Debauched_effects_desc
        Threshold  4 

        Effect Piety -1 
        Effect LocalPopularity -2 

    Level Sexually_Perverse
        Description Sexually_Perverse_desc
        EffectsDescription Sexually_Perverse_effects_desc
        Threshold  7 

        Effect Piety -2 
        Effect LocalPopularity -3 

    Level Sexually_Corrupt
        Description Sexually_Corrupt_desc
        EffectsDescription Sexually_Corrupt_effects_desc
        Threshold  10 

        Effect Piety -3 
        Effect Authority -1 
        Effect LocalPopularity -4 

    Level Diabolically_Degenerate
        Description Diabolically_Degenerate_desc
        EffectsDescription Diabolically_Degenerate_effects_desc
        Epithet Diabolically_Degenerate_epithet_desc
        Threshold  12 

        Effect Piety -4 
        Effect Authority -2 
        Effect LocalPopularity -5

As you can see there is also a law effect which does the opposite of unrest .... i suppose their effects varies a bit according to cultures and religions in a settlement ...

[Draxdevourer]

(...) As you can see there is also a law effect which does the opposite of unrest .... i suppose their effects varies a bit according to cultures and religions in a settlement ...

Are you suggesting that negative popularity and unrest are in fact two different game-effects, like negative law and unrest? I assumed they where the same, but I guess I'm not so sure anymore. I'll look for this in-game to see if I can make clearer sense of it.

[The_Steppenwulf]

One would have thought somewhere there is a tutorial/guide on all the known effects of the game's trait variables. I for one would like to get my head round all of them. Unfortunately I can't find anything out there, if anyone knows better and has a link they can provide, that would be great!!

[StealthFox]

Here it is.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/931592-me...war/faqs/50116

Be advised though that this is for vanilla M2TW and there may be discrepancies with TATW and other mods.

[The_Steppenwulf]

Here it is.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/931592-me...war/faqs/50116

Be advised though that this is for vanilla M2TW and there may be discrepancies with TATW and other mods.

This is a very useful list for those who want a breakdown of the traits; how they are acquired or lost and how they network with other traits. To be fair this is probably exactly what the OP is looking for.

However, there's no mention of the effect variable of those traits on the game engine or specifically how they ("Effect") affect the game mechanics. As I stated in my post I've never seen any comprehensive guide of the mechanics, although there have been singular results posted on specific attributes such as "Charm" and "PersonalSecurity", some stuff on "Piety" and the more obvious ones like "LineOfSight" and "MovementPoints" require little investigation.

I'm specifically interested in "Attack", "Defence" "Command" "InfantryCommand" "CavalryCommand" "Authority" and "Loyalty" (But I'd love see a guide covering everything). For example, if we take the case of "Attack", I would like to know if this attribute affects the mechanics of the strat map only (auto resolve) or does it include the battle map. If the latter (which seems most reasonable) and my general has a +5 "Attack" attribute, how will that affect the performance of the units in battle? Is it a straight foward effect on the unit attack rating? If so, is the EDU attack rating upgraded by 5 points in the same way Exp points are, or is there a different ratio applied to that score? Will an adjustment only apply to the general bodyguard or does it apply to all units?

I'm supposing the above and it probably is correct but I'd like to see someone have confirmed this through direct experiment/observation.

[StealthFox]

I'm specifically interested in "Attack", "Defence" "Command" "InfantryCommand" "CavalryCommand" "Authority" and "Loyalty" (But I'd love see a guide covering everything). For example, if we take the case of "Attack", I would like to know if this attribute affects the mechanics of the strat map only (auto resolve) or does it include the battle map. If the latter (which seems most reasonable) and my general has a +5 "Attack" attribute, how will that affect the performance of the units in battle? Is it a straight foward effect on the unit attack rating? If so, is the EDU attack rating upgraded by 5 points in the same way Exp points are, or is there a different ratio applied to that score? Will an adjustment only apply to the general bodyguard or does it apply to all units?

I'm supposing the above and it probably is correct but I'd like to see someone have confirmed this through direct experiment/observation.

This is actually pretty easy. Traits and ancillaries with attack, defense or infantry and cavalry command raise or lower your general's command stars. So, a trait that gives +1 attack means that your general gets plus one command star when attacking, which is translated on the battlefield as a morale booster. It does not mean his bodyguard unit gets +1 attack stat on the battlefield. Unit attack stat increases come from experience chevrons.

Authority and Loyalty are both related to your captains and generals rebelling. A faction leader with high authority will make your armies with captains (not generals) less likely to rebel along with your generals with low loyalty less likely to rebel.

[The_Steppenwulf]

Thanks for replying Stealth Fox. These are the kind of answers I'm looking for. Still I find it odd that there is no difference in effect between Attack, Defence and Command. Logically, there seem to be zero point in CA originally progamming three different attributes.

The second related point is that InfantryCommand, CavalryCommand, and ArtilleryCommand clearly define different types of units. Do those particular units only then benefit from a morale boost? Surely they don't offer a general morale boost and surely they aren't duplications of the same attribute Command?
Your Authority and Loyalty explanation is sound although I would love to know what the chances are of a general rebelling if those attributes are 0 and 0 for both and then 10 and 10. Such information would allow a much rounder understanding in balancing traits - something which doesn't appear to have registered with modders wishing to write their own traits and ancillaries.

Then we have all the rest of the attributes that I'd like to get some "under the hood" info on:

Character Attributes

AmbushArtillery Command Assassination Attack Authority BattleSurgery Bribery Bribe Resistance CavalryCommand CharmChivalry Combat_V_Faction_England Combat_V_Religion_islam Command Construction Defence Farming Fertility Finance Gunpowder Command Health Heresy Immunity HitPoints Infantry Command Influence Law LineOfSight LocalPopularity Looting Loyalty Magic Mining MovementPoints NavalCommand PersonalSecurity Piety Purity PublicSecurity Sabotage SeigeAttack SiegeDefense SeigeEngineering Squalor Subterfuge TaxCollection Trading TrainingAgents TrainingUnits TroopMorale Unorthodoxy Unrest Violence

I'm wondering now if there's anything on the wicki about this, but somehow I suspect not. It's certainly something that individuals could amalgamate their knowledge into a community effort rsulting in an indispensable guide for traits and ancillary modders.

[StealthFox]

Thanks for replying Stealth Fox. These are the kind of answers I'm looking for. Still I find it odd that there is no difference in effect between Attack, Defence and Command. Logically, there seem to be zero point in CA originally progamming three different attributes.

But there is a difference. A trait with +1 attack will only trigger when you're army is attacking, likewise, you'll only get a defense trait bonus if you're army is defending.

The second related point is that InfantryCommand, CavalryCommand, and ArtilleryCommand clearly define different types of units. Do those particular units only then benefit from a morale boost? Surely they don't offer a general morale boost and surely they aren't duplications of the same attribute Command?

Nope, this applies to command stars. If your general is "Effective with Infantry" he will get +1 command star if he unit stack is mostly infantry. If your general is "Effective with Infantry" but has an army of nothing bu cavalry, no bonus will be applied.

Your Authority and Loyalty explanation is sound although I would love to know what the chances are of a general rebelling if those attributes are 0 and 0 for both and then 10 and 10. Such information would allow a much rounder understanding in balancing traits - something which doesn't appear to have registered with modders wishing to write their own traits and ancillaries.

I'm not sure about actual percentages, but if you have a faction leader with 0 authority and a general with 0 loyalty, I image there is a 100% chance your general is going to rebel.

Then we have all the rest of the attributes that I'd like to get some "under the hood" info on:

Character Attributes

AmbushArtillery - If you ambush with artillery you'll get a command bonus Command - ??? Assassination - Higher percentage chance of successful assassination Attack - Already answered Authority - Already answered BattleSurgery - Determines chance of casualties being healed after a battle Bribery - Determines chance of a successful bribe Bribe - See above. Probably one is for agent and one for general Resistance - Hmm, maybe determines loot for sacking or exterminating - not sure about this one CavalryCommand - Cavalry Command bonus CharmChivalry - Should this be separate charm and chivalry? Combat_V_Faction_England - Affects battle command against a particular faction Combat_V_Religion_islam - Affects battle command against a particular religion Command - ??? Construction - Affects price of construction Defense - Affects defense command star Farming - Affects farming output Fertility - Affects chance of having children Finance - Affects the tax income Gunpowder- Affects battle command with gunpowder units Command - ??? Health - Determine number of hitpoints? Heresy - Affects level of heresy Immunity - Affects ability to get the plague? HitPoints - number of hit points Infantry - Affects battle command with infantry Command - ??? Influence - ??? Law - Affects settlement happiness LineOfSight - Affects Line of Sight LocalPopularity - Affects settlement happiness Looting - Affects amount looted when sacking or exterminating a settlement Loyalty - Affects loyalty stat Magic - Related to heresy? Mining - Affects income from mining MovementPoints - Affects movement points NavalCommand - Affects battle naval command PersonalSecurity - Affects chances for successful assassination Piety - Affects piety level Purity - Affects purity PublicSecurity - Affects chances of sabotage Sabotage - Affects chances of sabotage SeigeAttack - Affects attack command when besieging SiegeDefense - Affects defense commad when besieging SeigeEngineering - Affects the build points I think - to build rams, ladders, etc... Squalor - Affects squalor Subterfuge - Determines overall agent stat TaxCollection - Affects tax income Trading - Affects trading income TrainingAgents - Affects agent training cost TrainingUnits - Affects unit training cost TroopMorale - Affects troop morale Unorthodoxy - Affects piety Unrest - Affect settlement happiness Violence - Affects settlement happiness when rebelling

See my edit above. You're over thinking this. In most cases the traits mean exactly what they say.

[Vasterion]

Command - Each Positive adds a star.
Attack - When attacking, each positive adds a star. (Not sure if this stacks with Siege Attack/Affects when attacking F/C/S)
Siege Attack - when attacking a fort, city, or settlement, adds a star. (See above)
Defend - When defending, each positive adds a star. (Not sure if this stacks with Siege Defend/Affects when attacking F/C/S)
Siege Defend - when defending a fort, city, or settlement, adds a star. (See above)
Ambush - when ambushing, adds a star. (Maybe affects when defending against an ambush as well?)
CavalryCommand - when your army contains cavalry, adds a star. (Not sure if this includes the General's Bodyguard in its calculations)

I hope that helps.

[SinerAthin]

By the way, what does Command stars actually do? What sort of benefit do they yield in the battle itself?


(P.S Is it harder for High Elves to earn high Fear?)

[StealthFox]

The way I understand it is that the more command stars you have, the broader the range of morale boost goes. So, a general with 9 stars may give a morale boost to units very far away on a flank rather than only units directly next to the general.

[The_Steppenwulf]

Excellent, excellent, thanks for all the input everyone. Now what about TroopMorale?

TroopMorale - Affects troop morale

How does this operate differently from / or with respect to the Command stars?

[StealthFox]

I don't know for sure, but I would guess it's a blanket increase for all units in the army instead of a variable distance radiating from the general.

[k/t]

Don't Command stars give their own morale increase? The more stars, the bigger the morale boost and the wider it reaches.

Ah, nothing beats a 10 Star, 10 Dread general with 10 additional HPs.

Well, except a 10 Star, 10 Dread general with 12 additional HPs.

[SinerAthin]

Ye, Dread is my favourite stat as well.


But if Command gives morale, what does Chivalry give on the battlefield then?

[k/t]

More morale.

[SinerAthin]

Sounds like Chivalry is only for building up settlements. Not really something you would want to drag along to the battle.

It's a shame that Dread and Chivalry both had the potential to be great, but they messed up on the balance :o