[HELP: TACTICS] Arche-Seleucia: Feeling overwhelmed and Under-Armed

[Massive_attack]

Hey guys !

So im playing as the Seleucid empire, and I really love having a nice big empire start, its fun to try and grow and maintain such a large vast territory, and the troop roster is compelling.

But here's the thing, I'm finding that my empire is running out of steam fast.

Im playing the 0-turn campaign, (VH/VH) and I am waging a two front war with the would-be Pharoahs, the Ptolemies. At first, I tried to steamroller Gaza, and managed to take the Gazan and Sinai regions for the crown, losing Antigonus' elite army in the process, however (He managed to Ptolemy and a fistfull of his cronies in the process, however.) Lacking any immediate fast and safe method to retrain my military forces on the Gaza front hast been a real problem; Im forced to use armies of levy phalangites thureophoroi and extensive use of skirmisher and archer elements to make up for my distinct lack of 'oompf'. Moreover I get the feeling that im constantly using my armies awkwardly; most of my battles end in a victory, but at the cost a good chunk of warriors. On the Asia Minor front, we've made some headway though; Soon Halicarnassos will be ours, but the successor-warriors of Seleukis paid greatly for it.

Meanwhile on the southern coast of Asia minor, I have been waging a very successful war to end Ptolemaic colonization of that region. The idea was that since my ground war in Gaza was fumbling, I would ready elite armies to storm Ptolemaic colonies in a sort of naval-blitzkrieg, launching invasion armies from land and sea to bypass front lines and win me some much needed victories. Except here's the thing: The Ptolemies keep depleting my manpower reserves. It feels like after each battle I need to whisk away my 'elite' troops because, simply put, they keep dying on me. My Hetairoi are especially bad for this. I feel like Alexander is shaking his head and slapping his forehead from the heavens as he watches sad groups of 20-30 'elite' cavalry limp out after a battle is done. Perhaps he sheds a tear also for my Silver Shield Pike troops, that are murdered incessantly in every battle I have employed them in without fail. Yes really, every single one.

I have to be doing something wrong here. I get that RS AI is great and VH morale for enemy units is nothing short of heroic, but perhaps you can share battle tips and workable formations/rosters to straighten out my faltering armies.

In addition, I find that while my economy has been lovely; always in the black,about 30k a turn (I think) always letting me pump out new soldiers every turn without fail (its really the only thing keeping me going at this point, the Ptolemies are wearing me down quite a bit) I find that 3/4s or more of my income every turn is FORCED into public works projects in order to create stability in the empire. The distance to capital hit is incredibly painful to bear, especially when large cities are beginning to fill with people, and suddenly half my empire is in a very long waiting que for a new governors palace or whatever. I feel that Ill win in the long run: After a very long period of modernization the eastern provinces will be developed enough to support themselves and a burgeoning economy, but I lose sleep over the sleeping giant of the Parthians. Any turn now, Im sure those horse-archer scum will assault my poor colonies. I keep levy phalangites in those settlements just in case it ever happens, and im fairly confident that two to four units of levy phalanx would be able to hold the enemy off (provided the horse archers didnt murder them all at long range), but still.

So... yeah. Please help me be a better successor-emperor

[tone]

For a start you should restart your campaign on H/H. That should solve any problems, but yes it's supposed to be reasonably challenging

[Massive_attack]

Thanks, Tone, and sorry to any future readers that have to soldier through the myriad of spelling and grammar errors in that post. I typed it at 3:00 am after shufling home from work.

If I may ask, whats so bad about playing VH/VH ? Does it shatter the balance or something? Is that Why Ive been noticing that my hammer and anvil tactics feel like my 'hammer' (the hetairoi) feel like its made of some kind of plushie material in that it fails to break even levy phalangites when hammering in from behind?

Because that would explain why alot of my 'elites' are acting silly and why the endless legions of Ptolemy are frankly, such complete and utter heroes. (I once saw some katoikoi phalangites hold their own against some of my Thorakitai Agyraspides and just REFUSE to rout despite having lost the general of the army and most of their allies, in addition to being exhausted. When I finally broke them they had murdered all of the heavy peltasts I sent to help and half of the thorakitai.

You can imagine my concern over facing any remotely elite Ptolemaic soldier after that incident, and why I kind of just stopped training anything other than Hetairoi for my cavalry, because even with their stats they got thrashed every battle

[Primo]

On vh battle all the enemy troops get +7 to all their stats which turns them in raping monsters, you will see your cavalry routed by some nasty archers armed with knifes
When you will face the horse archers on VH you will cry

If I may ask, whats so bad about playing VH/VH ? Does it shatter the balance or something? Is that Why Ive been noticing that my hammer and anvil tactics feel like my 'hammer' (the hetairoi) feel like its made of some kind of plushie material in that it fails to break even levy phalangites when hammering in from behind?

Because that would explain why alot of my 'elites' are acting silly and why the endless legions of Ptolemy are frankly, such complete and utter heroes. (I once saw some katoikoi phalangites hold their own against some of my Thorakitai Agyraspides and just REFUSE to rout despite having lost the general of the army and most of their allies, in addition to being exhausted. When I finally broke them they had murdered all of the heavy peltasts I sent to help and half of the thorakitai.

You can imagine my concern over facing any remotely elite Ptolemaic soldier after that incident, and why I kind of just stopped training anything other than Hetairoi for my cavalry, because even with their stats they got thrashed every battle

Actually, VH battles are very well possible - I am currently playing a H/VH Gaelici Campaign, and I can hold my own. It is, of course, challenging - but thats why you select H/VH, isn´t it?

I find VH battles are way better balanced than M or H battles, for you have quite a challenge, but it is not impossible once you get accustomed to it; also, your casualities are way more realistic.

[LoGaL]

On vh battle all the enemy troops get +7 to all their stats which turns them in raping monsters, you will see your cavalry routed by some nasty archers armed with knifes
The vh campaign is bugged, avoid playing it, h is more difficult than vh
Maybe you should consider retreating to jerusalem or upgrade the walla of the conquered ptolemies cities in order to better defend the front
When you will face the horse archers on VH you will cry

[z3n]

On vh battle all the enemy troops get +7 to all their stats which turns them in raping monsters, you will see your cavalry routed by some nasty archers armed with knifes
The vh campaign is bugged, avoid playing it, h is more difficult than vh
Maybe you should consider retreating to jerusalem or upgrade the walla of the conquered ptolemies cities in order to better defend the front
When you will face the horse archers on VH you will cry

The VH campaign difficulty is bugged with the money bonus but the rest works how it should.

In my VH campaigns the AI is more aggressive and recruits more elite troops than in the H campaigns.

I like to play on VH/H and yeah VH battles seem to be less realistic. To each his own.

[LoGaL]

Ye but you will see strange things like scumy pesants armed with bow that rout your companions, skirmishers and light infrantry that rape badly your elite troops... I find that especially in sieges with big walls VH is a nightmare..

[Primo]

Ye but you will see strange things like scumy pesants armed with bow that rout your companions, skirmishers and light infrantry that rape badly your elite troops... I find that especially in sieges with big walls VH is a nightmare..

I don´t see that. My elite units are elite, and take out most of the weaker units. Only if they are outmassed they will loose, and this is very realistic.

And Archers, even if they are low quality, will cause huge casualities - this is historically accurate. Use your cavalry to kill them of before they get dangerous.

[Massive_attack]

Well if nothing else Im proud that my seleucids have managed to perform so well given the circumstances. But yeah, im just going to restart the game. It doesnt feel realistic: My elites ARE NOT elite; silver shields are getting murdered by levies, companions cant rout or charge anything making cavalry rather useless, flanking feels less like a decisive battle-changing momment and more like an investment; maybe after doing this in about 10 minutes you might see a rout for a unit or two.

So yeah, Ill just restart.

However to get everyone back on topic: What are your average seleucid army compositions? This is something Id like help with.

[LoGaL]

6 phalangitai
1 Argyraspides
3 thorakitai
1 hipaspistai
1 thorakitai argyraspides
3 syrian archers
2 seleucid xistophoroi
1 companion
1 chataphract
1 armored elephant/ chariot
At least back in 2.1 i used something similar

[LoGaL]

6 phalangitai
1 Argyraspides
3 thorakitai
1 hipaspistai
1 thorakitai argyraspides
3 syrian archers
2 seleucid xistophoroi
1 companion
1 chataphract
1 armored elephant/ chariot
At least back in 2.1 i used something similar

[z3n]

6levy pikes
2-4phalangitai
2thorakitai
2syrian archers
4cataphracts (1 cataphract 3 companions if I'm rushing the army)
the rest assorted, usually skirmishers like theurepai and a few other cavalry units and sometimes one or two units that I throw at the enemy to keep the in place and screen my more valuable troops.

[Massive_attack]

Interesting. I think I favor mobile non phalangite forces a bit more. I love Machairaphoroi and Thureophoroi units, even if I rarely ever get to field them (the Machairaphoroi) thanks to tech-restrictions.

I also have an unhealthy habit of using large forces of levy phalangites, I find them very cost effective. Perhaps thats another area where im going wrong, my average army is made up of very weak soldiers.

My average army looks something like this:

2-3 Skirmisher Cavalry (Aspidophoroi, Tarantines, whatever)
1-2 heavy cavalry (hetairoi, lonchophoroi, occasionally xystophoroi. I eventually just switched to hetairoi completely and ignored the others)
A good 5-6 Phalangites, because again, they are really cost effective and I like pinning Ptolemaic phalanxes with my own, and the rest of the army being a motley assortment of Thureophoroi, skrimishers and maybe some archers.

[LoGaL]

ye levy phalangitai are effective but i find the pezhetairoi much more durable and therefore worth the additional price
you should rly put those 1-2 units of cataphracts in, they can seriously make the enemy rout with a well timed charge