The two Chechen teens who risked their lives at Utöya by attacking Breivik

[Adar]

Just a very impressive story that I recently learned of that show the heroism and unique capabilities some immigrant youths are capable of. We mostly hear about the bad and rioting ones but these boys should also be known about.

Source http://www.rferl.org/content/chechen.../24299801.html

Rustam Daudov was just a small boy when the second Chechen war broke out. In 2003, his father was killed, and soon after, the family emigrated to Norway.

They thought life would be peaceful there -- light years away from the violence they had witnessed back home.

Daudov enjoyed life in his new home, and slowly began to take an interest in local politics. In July, the 16-year-old and a fellow Chechen friend, 17-year-old Movsar Dzhamayev, traveled to a Labor Party youth camp on the Norwegian island of Utoeya.

Daudov says they went to the camp "to look around and find out what was going on, just out of interest" and also to get a look at "what the political future holds."

But on July 22, Daudov and Dzhamayev were among hundreds of teenagers who found themselves trapped on Utoeya as a far-right extremist angered by the government's liberal immigration policies went on a massive shooting spree at the camp, killing 69 people over the course of an hour.

Fighting Back With Rocks

After seeing the heavily armed assailant, 32-year-old Anders Behring Breivik, kill several people at close range, Dzhamayev called his father, who urged the boys to fight back. So Daudov and Dzhamayev hurled rocks at Breivik, hoping to knock him unconscious.

But after watching Breivik kill an acquaintance by shooting him in the head, the boys fled. They turned their attention to finding a cave to help people hide as the rampage continued. In the end, they helped provide shelter for 23 people -- many of whom had entered the water surrounding the island, making them even more vulnerable.

Daudov claims it's possible that more people could have been saved but that the attack had been so unexpected it reduced the island to chaos.

"There were places to hide; it's just that everyone was panicking, everyone was in shock," he says. "No one could believe what was happening. A lot of them couldn't even tell if what was going on was real or not. No one had ever thought that something like that could happen in Norway. And even hiding didn't always help -- after all, he had an entire hour."
...
It's an explanation that Daudov echoes when explaining why he and Dzhamayev may have been the only people on the island with the presence of mind to fight back against a heavily armed killer.

"We probably reacted that way because we're Chechen," Daudov says. "In Norway they're not used to this. We lived through a war. But they thought that something like that could never happen. At that moment, even we thought something like that could never happen in Norway."

The part of the father who encouraged his children to fight back is actually something I can relate to from my time in the army. Some of Turkish and Kurdish boys in my company had very encouraging parents who considered it an important duty to protect their new homeland. Their actions are also far different from AUF Youth leader Eskil Pedersen who not only took the only boat on the island, but also convinced the captain to sail aimlessly for hours rather than traveling to a friend with hunting rifles.

[Their Law]

Just a very impressive story that I recently learned of that show the heroism and unique capabilities some immigrant youths are capable of. We mostly hear about the bad and rioting ones but these boys should also be known about.

Source http://www.rferl.org/content/chechen.../24299801.html



The part of the father who encouraged his children to fight back is actually something I can relate to from my time in the army. Some of Turkish and Kurdish boys in my company had very encouraging parents who considered it an important duty to protect their new homeland. Their actions are also far different from AUF Youth leader Eskil Pedersen who not only took the only boat on the island, but also convinced the captain to sail aimlessly for hours rather than traveling to a friend with hunting rifles.

I'm a little confused as to the criticism of Eskil Pedersen. What was he expected to do? Roam the island ferrying people to the boat whilst dodging Brevik? His actions were not particularly heroic but the circumstances were unique and singular and claiming that you know what a person in his position was 'expected' to do is a bit rich.

At that point all sense of structure broke down and people were just trying to survive. I would not have expected for the boat to remain docked on the island for any length of time, considering the high powered rifle's Brevik was using meant that being even close to the Island was dangerous.

I think people are looking for someone to blame for why the dead are dead and the alive are alive, and Pedersen seems to be the focal point.

Unless he's done something i've missed.

[Adar]

Unless he's done something i've missed.

There are two problems:

1) He prevented the captain from going to his friend to get rifles and help with the evacuation.

2) He didn't return to the mainland where the police could have used the boat when transferring to Utöya. Instead he cruised around fearing a military coup.

Essentially he could have done something heroic, something normal or something stupid and he sadly went with the stupid option.

[Tiberios]

2) He didn't return to the mainland where the police could have used the boat when transferring to Utöya. Instead he cruised around fearing a military coup.

Lol. I have to agree with you, he seems to have done the worst thing, I can't blame him for running away, but this he certainly did something very stupid.

[Kitsunegari]

There are two problems:

1) He prevented the captain from going to his friend to get rifles and help with the evacuation.

2) He didn't return to the mainland where the police could have used the boat when transferring to Utöya. Instead he cruised around fearing a military coup.

Essentially he could have done something heroic, something normal or something stupid and he sadly went with the stupid option.

Wow, links to any articles about this? Not that i doubt it, considering his politics. Also yes, in sharp contrast to the emasculated white male of today, the Chechens are very brave people, after all they are descendants of the Scythians (at least partially): they refused to give in to the oppression of Stalin, even when he deported their entire population and attempted to erase their identity. Solzhenitsyn praised their indomitable spirit even in the gulag.

[ivan_the_terrible]

Wow, links to any articles about this? Not that i doubt it, considering his politics. Also yes, in sharp contrast to the emasculated white male of today, the Chechens are very brave people, after all they are descendants of the Scythians (at least partially): they refused to give in to the oppression of Stalin, even when he deported their entire population and attempted to erase their identity. Solzhenitsyn praised their indomitable spirit even in the gulag.

They were deported along with several other northern Caucasian nationalities, though they generally get the most attention because they were the biggest.

Not sure about the Scythian connection. Seems awfully far-fetched to me, the latter being Iranic steppe-dwelling nomads and the Chechens being sedentary Caucasian highlanders.

[The Gurkhan]

I don't share the OP's sentiment. If I were a Norwegian I would read the article with alarm. I would be concerned at how my country has allowed two obviously dangerous Chechens to settle there.

[CyberFist]

Rock throwing hoping to knock him unconscious.

Says it all really.

Actually it reminds me of Palestinian 10 year olds v Israeli soldiers.

It's a waste of energy.

[Stark of Winterfell]

Rock throwing hoping to knock him unconscious.

Says it all really.

Actually it reminds me of Palestinian 10 year olds v Israeli soldiers.

It's a waste of energy.

Actually the two scenarios are entirely different. Throwing rocks at groups of soldiers backed by armored vehicles is pointless, because they have helmets, body armor, other soldiers nearby, and are backed by tanks. On the other hand, if one of these Chechen boys had managed to hit Breivik in the head with a rock, it could have potentially stunned him long enough for them to disarm him. Since he was alone, there would be no one to cover him if he got hit.

And the guy who sailed around instead of going to get guns definitely did the worse option. It's hard to blame him since he probably panicked and was completely unprepared for such a thing, but yeah, in hindsight he could've done much better.

[Keyser]

Actually the two scenarios are entirely different. Throwing rocks at groups of soldiers backed by armored vehicles is pointless, because they have helmets, body armor, other soldiers nearby, and are backed by tanks.

Well that would be pointless if their goal by throwing rocks was to defeat them militarily and destroy vehicles, as that is clearly not the case and as that clearly is harrassing for the israeli (as well as making a statement regarding their presence), i think it's not that pointless.

Regarding the two boys, it's the difference between panicking and just trying to survive or fighting back. Even if they had few chances, they still tried with what they got. And when they saw it was rather futile after all, they chose another way of fighting back by helping people to hide.
That's quite amazing, especially given how the others apparently mostly just panicked (unless some others interviews present us with another similar thing).

[athanaric]

Rock throwing hoping to knock him unconscious.

Says it all really.

Actually it reminds me of Palestinian 10 year olds v Israeli soldiers.

Actually, that's not at all similar. Firstly because of what Stark said, secondly because there's a tiny difference between an army of a state that prohibits mass murder of of unarmed civilians on one side and a crazed gunman on the other. The "Palestinians with rocks" are not deliberately targeted by the IDF if they lay down their rocks and go home. However, a person facing another person who's running amok doesn't have this choice. These kids were the most sensible of the bunch, though one probably has to ascribe that to their war-torn native environment.

It's a waste of energy.

What's your solution then?

[Blaze86420]

Chechens have pretty cool names. Rustam, I like it.

[persianfan247]

Chechens have pretty cool names. Rustam, I like it.

Rustam is a Persian name and is one of the main characters in the Shahnama

[Blaze86420]

Rustam is a Persian name and is one of the main characters in the Shahnama

I know that, that's why it's cool. I didn't know Iranian influence reached past the Caucasus.

[ivan_the_terrible]

I know that, that's why it's cool. I didn't know Iranian influence reached past the Caucasus.

There's a lot of it in Russia and Central Asia. Especially central asia, given that Persians were responsible for all sedentary civilisation there. Their culture later synthesised with those Turkic nomads who settled in the cities, but a great deal of what's taken to be pretty typically central asian is Persian in origin.

You can see a lot of Persian influence in pre-Petrine Russia too, and a lot of it stayed on after westernisation.

[Menelik_I]

Just a very impressive story that I recently learned of that show the heroism and unique capabilities some immigrant youths are capable of. We mostly hear about the bad and rioting ones but these boys should also be known about.

Source http://www.rferl.org/content/chechen.../24299801.html



The part of the father who encouraged his children to fight back is actually something I can relate to from my time in the army. Some of Turkish and Kurdish boys in my company had very encouraging parents who considered it an important duty to protect their new homeland. Their actions are also far different from AUF Youth leader Eskil Pedersen who not only took the only boat on the island, but also convinced the captain to sail aimlessly for hours rather than traveling to a friend with hunting rifles.

While Chechen part is cuddly and all, I find it disgusting that it used to push the ''Good immigrant '' narrative while at the same time pushing the ''fat and lazy natives'' narrative, Breivik was a monster for killing people, not because He was dumb like a BNP supporter, lets not diminish his crime for the sake of agenda pushing or vindicating his claim that Norwegian are soft and thus deserve to die.

The most important part is why this Eskil Pedersen dude lacked the balls to go get hunting rifles to confront Breivik, because in the US there are cases where students stopped a killing spree using their firearms and Breivik was obviously a coward more on intent of hunting innocent victims than fighting.

Or why the only police officer on the Island had no firearms on him, and thus was the first person to die at Brievik hands.

[Adar]

While Chechen part is cuddly and all, I find it disgusting that it used to push the ''Good immigrant '' narrative while at the same time pushing the ''fat and lazy natives'' narrative, Breivik was a monster for killing people, not because He was dumb like a BNP supporter, lets not diminish his crime for the sake of agenda pushing or vindicating his claim that Norwegian are soft and thus deserve to die.

Immigrants youths mostly get into the media due to their over representation in various types of crime. So I think it was refreshing to see some of the good guys getting into the spotlight.

And I would rather consider it a "cowardly politician who probably killed his political career" narrative regarding Pedersen.

Wow, links to any articles about this? Not that i doubt it, considering his politics. Also yes, in sharp contrast to the emasculated white male of today, the Chechens are very brave people, after all they are descendants of the Scythians (at least partially): they refused to give in to the oppression of Stalin, even when he deported their entire population and attempted to erase their identity. Solzhenitsyn praised their indomitable spirit even in the gulag.

The hyperlink with his name is an article on the subject in Norwegian and a BBC interview in English where he tries to explain himself. You can also check the wikipedia which mentions parts of it and how sensitive the subject is.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Makes sense that they didnt panic considering they came from a war background.

[Kaukas]

It is time to import some model citizens from Afghanistan...Really, was there anything else to do on that goddamn island? I don't think media is achieving anything in this case. Anyway to my mind overall media coverage of Breivik case was pretty pathetic.

P.S. In my opinion title of the article should be formulated something like this "Brave kids tried to stop Breivik" instead of obvious flamebait.

[Norge]

Daudov and Dzhamayev hurled rocks at Breivik, hoping to knock him unconscious.

There's a fine line between stupidity and bravery, guess which side these guys are on...
This suicidal mentality is worrying, even more so when it's actually encouraged by their parents.