High Elves and Forests and the SE

[Fluttershy]

So im really enjoying my HE, VH/VH, campaign and have been expanding very nicely so far at turn 43 ( Isengard dead, got most all the rebel settlements at start, plus stole about 3 from eriador and took Moira and a few others from the northern orc factions)

But now that im looking around the map I'm realizing that the real fights going to be with Mordor/Harad (although Gondor is still holding)... The problem however is that it doesent look like there are many forest provinces that I can take down that way to produce troops, and the idea of shipping troops from my home turf waaay south makes me cringe.

HOWEVER, im now noticing a green blob of concentrated forest towns that also happen to be really built up and are located in an area that would allow me to strike at Rhun or Mordor pretty easily.

So is it just me or does fighting the silvan elves make a heck of a lot more sense then for the HE fighting MM or gundabad? So far ive found the settlements ive taken from them besides Moira to be pretty worthless (outside of extra coin, but my economy rocks with or without them) and Cant produce troops (And pretty much never will).

Outside of "lore" It strikes me as taking out the Silvans is probably the single most beneficial thing you can do when playing the HE, thoughts?

[Wizad]

You could also rush for the Ithilien.

But I am a bit biased. I hate it when factions fight against eachother that are not supposed to fight eachother. I can understand Rhun fighting Harad for a brief period or even the Dwarves fighting with the Elves (although I dislike it when the Dwarves go for the Silvans while Rhun is owning Dale), but HE vs SE is too much for me.

[Leggy]

You're actually thinking on committing another Kinslaying? I think three are enough.

[TheDarkKnight]

You're actually thinking on committing another Kinslaying? I think three are enough.

Anyways, shouldn't Ithilien be a good region?

[Macilrille]

"Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains. On the House of Feanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from theWest unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them,and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin, and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Dispossessed shall they be for ever.
"Ye have spilled the blood of your kindred unrighteously and have stained the land of Aman. For blood ye shall render blood, and beyond Aman ye shall dwell in Death's shadow. For though Eru appointed to you to die not in Ea, and no sickness may assail you, yet slain ye may be, and slain ye shall be: by weapon and by torment and by grief; and your houseless spirits shall come then to Mandos. There long shall ye abide and yearn for your bodies, and find little pity though all whom ye have slain should entreat for you. And those that endure in Middle-earth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden, and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger race that cometh after. The Valar have spoken."

[TheDarkKnight]

From a gameplay point of view, I guess it does make sense. You need more places to recruit units, and the best places are in forested areas. Forested areas are owned by other factions as well, so naturally it makes sense that, when the time comes, you should take them.


BUT

From a lore perspective, killing off the Silvan Elves while playing High Elves makes no sense, as you have said.

I would imagine the Valar would not be pleased with this...Lol

[Orc Warlord]

If you wish to take from the Sylvan Elves, but not fight them directly, there is a way to do it.

It takes patience, and cooperation from your enemies (not always easy to accomplish), but it can be done.

Have a stack of troops lurk about the area(s) you are interested in acquiring, particularly ones that front an enemy faction. This need not be YOUR enemy, rather the enemy of the faction whose land that you wish to snatch.

Wait. (This is the hardest part of this type of operation)

When the enemy faction takes land from your "ally", YOU take it from THEM.

Then just never offer it back to the original owner. If the Sylvan elves are hard pressed by Mordor or whomever, it may be possible to grab multiple lots, rather quickly. But there is no guarantee.

Sometimes, the enemy just will not cooperate.

[Wizad]

Sometimes, the enemy just will not cooperate.

Lol you could even donate Mordor money so he can create armies. XD

[Orc Warlord]

Lol you could even donate Mordor money so he can create armies. XD

I usually will not go quite that far.

But, the funny thing about this type of operation, is the respect you get from the faction you are essentially stealing from. Because you are fighting THEIR enemy, in order to capture territory, they like you more for killing their foes. They do not seem to notice that all the land that they used to own, now belongs to you!

But hey, we all know that the AI ain't none too bright.

[MacCarthy]

Recruitment speed wise forest is your best follow by grassland with mountain and desert being the worst for your faction. You could send a diplomat and try to trade some the mountain regions to SE for forest.
The region west of Moria ost-en-ghil <sp> you can produce Smiths units when it becomes large enough with the special guild. I found it way to slow to level it up, by time you get the units you could be on the steps of Mordor. So you may want to to the population cheat just to play with them earlier.

[Elensul]

You can do some funny stuff to get good settlements.
This is an exemple: Take half-stack of nobles, go to the black gate.
Take the gate.
Farm mordor to hell (take barad-dur, ect.)
Each settlement you take *sell/exchange as soon as taken to SE. Worked for me x)

PS: take poor nobles for this cash operation, they may not come back ^^' (which will make you some income)

[Fluttershy]

You can do some funny stuff to get good settlements.
This is an exemple: Take half-stack of nobles, go to the black gate.
Take the gate.
Farm mordor to hell (take barad-dur, ect.)
Each settlement you take *sell/exchange as soon as taken to SE. Worked for me x)

PS: take poor nobles for this cash operation, they may not come back ^^' (which will make you some income)

I might actually try this... Mordor im sure would easily take the provs back (I want mordor, harad, Rhun strong for when I face em ) and I would get some good SE I need without having to decimate them

[eugenioso]

stop trying to mess around with the forces of nature. if you want to get to Mordor, take the straight route there: southern eriador, isengard (nice cash cows/troop centers), fangorn, then just keep going south.

failing that, try a Last Alliance, which is simply gathering 3 or 2 fully equipped armies and sending them by boat to... "colonize" the enemy lands.

[brasswire]

In my current Silvan game I had that happen. I got boxed in by Dale capturing the province immediately south of Dol Guldur, and Rohan capturing Fangorn, while Allied with both. I ended up "helping" Mordor by sending units to block bridges and such to prevent Rohan from sending reinforcements while Mordor took over their territory all the way up to Caras Galadhon, letting me then capture it back from Mordor and giving me a path to the Ithilien region.

One thing I kind of like about the new vegetation regions in 3.0 is that it does encourage trading regions with allies so that you can pick up settlements that match the kind of vegetation you need.

[Fluttershy]

well I think my HE campaign is sadly done at turn 63... I wanted to look around so I used the FoW cheat (I was curious!) and damn... Dwarves have reduced Rhun to 3 provinces, I killed off the majority of the 2 northern orc factions, Rohan has pushed through the black gate, Gondor went through minas Ilith and took Harad down to Umbar...

What a huge let down lol... stupid "good" factions beat everyone else... I think it might have been because I killed Isangard early which allowed Rohan to spam stacks at mordor while Gondor pimp slapped harad AND Mordor... as for the dorfs and Rhun... I have no idea what happened.

hugely disappointed as My economy was 10K a turn at 63 Never seen the good factions curb stomp the bad without my interference before

[TheDarkKnight]

well I think my HE campaign is sadly done at turn 63... I wanted to look around so I used the FoW cheat (I was curious!) and damn... Dwarves have reduced Rhun to 3 provinces, I killed off the majority of the 2 northern orc factions, Rohan has pushed through the black gate, Gondor went through minas Ilith and took Harad down to Umbar...

What a huge let down lol... stupid "good" factions beat everyone else... I think it might have been because I killed Isangard early which allowed Rohan to spam stacks at mordor while Gondor pimp slapped harad AND Mordor... as for the dorfs and Rhun... I have no idea what happened.

hugely disappointed as My economy was 10K a turn at 63 Never seen the good factions curb stomp the bad without my interference before

Well...Turn on everyone.

[Macilrille]

Well...Turn on everyone.

I say again; "Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains. On the House of Feanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from theWest unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them,and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin, and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Dispossessed shall they be for ever.
"Ye have spilled the blood of your kindred unrighteously and have stained the land of Aman. For blood ye shall render blood, and beyond Aman ye shall dwell in Death's shadow. For though Eru appointed to you to die not in Ea, and no sickness may assail you, yet slain ye may be, and slain ye shall be: by weapon and by torment and by grief; and your houseless spirits shall come then to Mandos. There long shall ye abide and yearn for your bodies, and find little pity though all whom ye have slain should entreat for you. And those that endure in Middle-earth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden, and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger race that cometh after. The Valar have spoken."

[Pyres Δt Varanasi]

So im really enjoying my HE, VH/VH, campaign and have been expanding very nicely so far at turn 43 ( Isengard dead, got most all the rebel settlements at start, plus stole about 3 from eriador and took Moira and a few others from the northern orc factions)

But now that im looking around the map I'm realizing that the real fights going to be with Mordor/Harad (although Gondor is still holding)... The problem however is that it doesent look like there are many forest provinces that I can take down that way to produce troops, and the idea of shipping troops from my home turf waaay south makes me cringe.

HOWEVER, im now noticing a green blob of concentrated forest towns that also happen to be really built up and are located in an area that would allow me to strike at Rhun or Mordor pretty easily.

So is it just me or does fighting the silvan elves make a heck of a lot more sense then for the HE fighting MM or gundabad? So far ive found the settlements ive taken from them besides Moira to be pretty worthless (outside of extra coin, but my economy rocks with or without them) and Cant produce troops (And pretty much never will).

Outside of "lore" It strikes me as taking out the Silvans is probably the single most beneficial thing you can do when playing the HE, thoughts?

You could capture Druedan Forest Near Minas Tirith is a Forest Region and most of the time is a rebel settlement or you could offer some money to Gondor and most of the time they accept.

[Havoc394]

Isn't Dol Guldur a forest region? That belongs to Mordor at the start and is pretty close to the rest of Mordor.

[Warlord Skorr]

Dol Guldur is a Mountain region. As are all of the other Citadels and Fortresses(barring West Osgiliath) on the starting map.

I think it is a pretty good way of representing the Orc and Dwarf personalities (fortify the biggest, baddest fort you can find; a safe place to live is more important than a pretty home) as opposed to everyone else's. But your mileage may vary.