Is there any anti-cavalry unit for dwarfs?

[zax]

Like in title...!

[IrishBlood]

I've never played as the Dwarfs, im more of an Empire guy myself , but I know most dwarf units are able to deploy stakes. Also units that can preform a shield wall are good at resisting cav charges. Also, i THINK 2 handed axe units get a bonus against cavalry, though im not sure

[zax]

but no pikes to counter direct charge? Crappy, stupid stacks full of orky cavalry constatly besige my castles and ass heads do nothing except starving me out. When i sally out its boar boys quickly mop up the floor with dwarws. I think i'm gonna add some pike units for the dwarfs, (some mercs available from the start) to make things more reasonable. (or maybe just remove most of boar boyz from those ridiculous auto stacks)

[Karion]

Just use mortars and ranged units, kill them from afar and then you go to melee.

[IrishBlood]

always fight defensivly

[zax]

I know, but what if my castle is under siege and enemy doesn't want to attack? How to play such situation defencivly? And considering wilde unit stats even simple skirmish usually ends with serious mutilation of an army. (And then, blam! 2 full auto stacks of gobos army invade instantly very next turn, because "they feel weekness" in my front line). For completetly unknown to me reason, 70% of dwarven units loose all stamina almost instantly when entering combat and never charge unless forced to. Fortunately mortars can deal nice damage as long as i exploit battle AI stupidity (never knew i could dance so effectively with mortar team).

On the side note, whats the purpose of those fancy units like greatbeards? They can't handle the troll, cost a fortune of upkeep, can't be of free upkeep, stamina drains instantly when in combat (lstamina drops, huge penalties on defence/attack) making them one time use. Is there a way to replenish them? Is there any reason i should keep them instead suicide them and forget about how pitiful they are?

[IrishBlood]

when sallying out, just use your archers/artillery to weaken the enemy. You dont have to rout every unit. if you return all your units back inside the fortress and quit the battle it will count as a draw. But if you do enough damage to the enemy army then they will abandon the siege the next turn.

I think there is currently a submod that makes them more powerful and useful. And reiksfart is also making a submod that will totatlly rebalence the entire game.

[Karion]

Well, when that happends to me the ai just decide to throw away all his siege equipment, at first i never wanted to fight too, but in that situation i did what i already say above with the mortars (always protected by the rest of the army, since obviously you will have to leave the city and fight like the ai want).

And about the stamina, i will quote Gimli (yeah i know wrong franchise xD) ''Dwarf aren't for long distances races, we are dangerous at close range'', basically, you don't have to charge, try to use your line inf units like a sponge against those greenskins and then make a claw with your elites from the flanks.

About the balance, yeah, i feel them too weak in cow vainilla, so i tried Warcry submod, it kinda makes them better, so much than now slayers can keep trolls at bay

[boatie]

I don't really know how others play, so I can only share how I play. I play on vhvh and fight all battles. Basically, if you play with default you will lose bad, so some tweaks are needed. Once the game starts, I don't use any money cheats. Keeps things pretty desperate.

First, I reduce some units upkeep costs. The purchase costs of a unit I keep the same. No upkeep costs more than 500g. 1st tier melee units have a 100g upkeep, 2nd tier 200g, 3rd tier 350g. Contrary to what everyone else seems to say, dwarfs do not make a lot of money, especially when fighting on 3 fronts.
Second, I increase some units armor (2nd tier and higher units should have good armor values and/or be able to upgrade into several levels of armor) and make all 2nd tier and higher units very_hardy. Its stupid that going 1 circuit around your only castle would completely exhaust your units.
Third, I increase the size of elite units (e.g., generals, Gotrek slayers) to 3/4 normal unit size instead of default 1/3.

In terms of battles, you need to have 2 miner units with each army and 2-4 mortar units. Miners are the only unit that are effective against cavalry, since your melee units cannot chase them down. I find the range units glitchy and not very effective, especially in sieges.

[Reiksfart]

In terms of battles, you need to have 2 miner units with each army and 2-4 mortar units. .

Dwarves arn't even supposed to have mortars

[IrishBlood]

Dwarves arn't even supposed to have mortars

which is why we need your sub-mod to balence things out

[zax]

Dwarves arn't even supposed to have mortars

Why?
It's best unit they got (beside rolling anvil)

[Reiksfart]

Mortars are not part of the dwarf roster in the official rules. They don't need them when everything is coded right, and they always have grudgethrowers for lobbing over walls. Thunderers are one of their best units.

[boatie]

Well, if cannons behave like mortars, then I would say cannons. Right now, cannons are pretty worthless. They move really slow, they kill more of your own units than others. Their cone of fire is limited. Grapeshot is glitchy and not really worth it. It takes them forever to reposition to fire at a new unit. Mortars have the same issues, but arch fire alleviates a lot of this.

Grudgethrowers are awesome but I never have enough money and/or time to build up all the buildings needed to have these, so rarely use them. They also seem to have less range and lower damage than mortars. The new anvils are totally worth it but 2000g upkeep? That's four mortars, I rather have the mortars or miners.

[zax]

Grudgethrowers? awesome? lamest catapults evar, no splash dmg, bearly accurate, useless in defence. Mortars beat throwers anyday anytime.

[Reiksfart]

Cannons are very good now with some new coding I added in recently and are a more than adequate replacement for mortars in field battles. That is without any explosive shots, which no faction is supposed to have for cannons or mortars. Just solid shot. I haven't fixed grapeshot yet and will probably go back to the pre-1.4 grapeshot which was much more usable.

Grudgethrowers are supposed to have a significantly longer range than mortars and the dwarven cannons (which are smaller than empire cannons). Best used for taking out enemy artillery and is now the only dwarven artillery which can be used in a siege defense.

If people play my submod they need to expect a very different play experience and needing to use new tactics. It might not be for everyone, but it will be much closer to the official rules than anything else.

[Karion]

The only problem that i see is that we have to wait to use your sub mod xD

[Ichon]

Cavalry are quite a bit more powerful than in tabletop warhammer and that is the main reason that dwarves struggle to me. They should be able to make it up with their artillery and guns but the only really effective unit they have currently are the miners. Thunderers can be good in the right situation but it seems rare I can use them effectively.

[boatie]

Up to turn 65 on my first playthrough of 1.5 and there seems to be significant changes to dwarven economy. They now seem to make decent money because I am fielding a lot more armies that I ever could under 1.4.4. So, no need to adjust any upkeep.

Grudgethrower has cannonballs rolling through ranks of units (for the few times that it manages to have a direct hit), what's not awesome about that? Also, its cheap, tough, and has a cool name! In vanilla, the range is significantly less than mortars.

Reiksfart, I really hope you can tweak thunderers, just does not seem worth getting them. Two volleys that barely kill anything and then they have to melee.

[Reiksfart]

Reiksfart, I really hope you can tweak thunderers, just does not seem worth getting them. Two volleys that barely kill anything and then they have to melee.

Nothing will be the same as in vanilla. I really like thunderers and handgunners now, with their tight 2 rank formations which are easily positioned by the player and AI and very effective firing. All new coding with something new I added to balance them without changing the obvious damage and accuracy values from 'the formula'. You will see when I have the next battle test version ready. Been a lot more busy lately, like lazing about in the sun and going on day trips to the city. Plus I've been working on adding spells to von cartstein vampire units, because they are supposed to be spellcasters too. Won't have a lot of ammo, but I wanted them to be more or less how they should be. Lots of little things I end up working on which slow down progress elsewhere.