Naffatun

**complete noob:(** · May 02, 2012, 06:12 PM

I've never used naffatun in battle, but under the description it says they throw burning chemicals. So i am wondering if they can instantly set rams and siege towers on fire. Can they?

**SturmChurro** · May 02, 2012, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by complete noob:(

I've never used naffatun in battle, but under the description it says they throw burning chemicals. So i am wondering if they can instantly set rams and siege towers on fire. Can they?

I have actually never tried it. Whatever the gates drop doesn't set the ram on fire so I doubt it. Probably just the unit carrying the equipment. I'll test it out in game.

You can't really do it. You cannot actually have them throw them at the ram. You can only have them throw them at the unit carrying the ram. If you try having them attack the ram you get a melee cursor. (Medieval II Vanilla)

**complete noob:(** · May 02, 2012, 08:38 PM

Well, that's disappointing. Thanks anyways

**Silent Assassin** · May 03, 2012, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

You can't really do it. You cannot actually have them throw them at the ram. You can only have them throw them at the unit carrying the ram. If you try having them attack the ram you get a melee cursor. (Medieval II Vanilla)

Not so sure about that

I didn't test them but IIRC some time ago they were players using them all the time for defensive siege battles where they would place the Naffatun units on the walls just over the gate and they were doing massive damage, not sure if the damage was done to the ram or the units moving it tough

Originally Posted by complete noob:(

I've never used naffatun in battle, but under the description it says they throw burning chemicals. So i am wondering if they can instantly set rams and siege towers on fire. Can they?

Well they are like the ancesters of the Grenadier, they threw some sorts of bottles that had chemnicals in them. IIRC they were used in a similar way as TNT.

**SturmChurro** · May 03, 2012, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Silent Assassin

Not so sure about that

I didn't test them but IIRC some time ago they were players using them all the time for defensive siege battles where they would place the Naffatun units on the walls just over the gate and they were doing massive damage, not sure if the damage was done to the ram or the units moving it tough

Well they are like the ancesters of the Grenadier, they threw some sorts of bottles that had chemnicals in them. IIRC they were used in a similar way as TNT.

I might do another test where I have several units on the walls and in reserve to see how it goes.

As you can see in my early test they were doing massive damage to those peasants (LOL).

Thinking about it.. Isn't the ram once it starts ramming down the gates invincible?

**Silverheart** · May 03, 2012, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Silent Assassin

Not so sure about that

I didn't test them but IIRC some time ago they were players using them all the time for defensive siege battles where they would place the Naffatun units on the walls just over the gate and they were doing massive damage, not sure if the damage was done to the ram or the units moving it tough

No, they only cause damage against the soldiers - but that damage is massive! When playing Egypt or Turks, having two or more units of these in your castles should be standard due to the massive damage they cause in terms of casualties and morale. Placing them atop a gate is simply a way to get around their extremely short range.
I think the Naffatuns´ ceramic pots aren´t categorized as flaming ammo by the game (since they are not burning when thrown) and that´s why they can´t cause ignition in siege equipment, but that´s just a theory

Originally Posted by Silent Assassin

Well they are like the ancesters of the Grenadier, they threw some sorts of bottles that had chemnicals in them. IIRC they were used in a similar way as TNT.

Naffatun used an early form of naphta, a liquid similar to oil (and I believe oil was an ingredient in the mix), stored in a ceramic pot with a stump of rope.
Upon impact, the pots would break and cause the flammable naphta to get into contact with the burning rope. Then the flaming liquid would seep into armour and ignite clothes, causing the victims to die a very painful death.
So they didn´t actually explode, but your comparison with grenadiers is correct nonetheless

**Teutonic Warlord** · May 03, 2012, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Silverheart

Naffatun used an early form of naphta, a liquid similar to oil (and I believe oil was an ingredient in the mix), stored in a ceramic pot with a stump of rope.
Upon impact, the pots would break and cause the flammable naphta to get into contact with the burning rope. Then the flaming liquid would seep into armour and ignite clothes, causing the victims to die a very painful death.
So they didn´t actually explode, but your comparison with grenadiers is correct nonetheless

So in other words, they are medieval Molotov cocktails.

**SturmChurro** · May 03, 2012, 12:09 PM

Guys it does!

Reserved for the tests

**SturmChurro** · May 03, 2012, 12:35 PM

Warning! Large amount of pictures

Medieval II (Vanilla) Huge City

Medieval II (Vanilla) Large Town

Medieval II Kingdoms Crusades (Vanilla) BREAKTHROUGH! City

Medieval II Kingdoms Crusades (Vanilla) Large Town

Naffatun, in fact, does damage the battering ram, but only in Kingdoms. In Medieval II (Vanilla) Naffatun only damages the units carrying and around the ram. Either way Naffatun is a powerful defense.

For Fun! GREEK FIRE!

Myth busted?

**TheDarkKnight** · May 05, 2012, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Warning! Large amount of pictures

Medieval II (Vanilla) Huge City

Medieval II (Vanilla) Large Town

Medieval II Kingdoms Crusades (Vanilla) BREAKTHROUGH! City

Medieval II Kingdoms Crusades (Vanilla) Large Town

Naffatun, in fact, does damage the battering ram, but only in Kingdoms. In Medieval II (Vanilla) Naffatun only damages the units carrying and around the ram. Either way Naffatun is a powerful defense.

For Fun! GREEK FIRE!

Myth busted?

This makes me wonder...

Say archers/towers/naffatun are able to set siege towers and rams on fire. Does their resilience against such attacks go up at the same rate as the unit sizes (large, huge, etc).

Say, for example, it takes five fire arrows to set a ram/siege tower on fire on the lowest unit size. Would it require ten, twenty, or forty arrows to set it on fire as the size of the units goes up?

(hopefully I didn't word that confusingly)

**Silent Assassin** · May 03, 2012, 01:30 PM

I knew it

**tudor93** · May 03, 2012, 01:32 PM

you funny churro

have some rep

**Silverheart** · May 03, 2012, 02:53 PM

So we have an official result then: Naffatun does not cause damage on siege equipment in regular vanilla M2TW, but have been upgraded to be able to do that in the Kingdoms Expansion Pack!

However, I would still like a larger number of tests to be performed in vanilla, to see if it is possible for them to still set the ram ablaze despite there being no percentage damage. Considering that flaming arrows from basic defense towers can ignite the ram without there being any percentage of damage first, it may be possible for missile troops to do it as well...

PS.
enjoyed the greek fire photos - such total butcherings are always wonderful to behold

DS.

**complete noob:(** · May 03, 2012, 07:17 PM

So won't actually destroy the ram, but will greatly delay it? (by forcing ram carriers to rout from losses)

**SturmChurro** · May 03, 2012, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by complete noob:(

So won't actually destroy the ram, but will greatly delay it? (by forcing ram carriers to rout from losses)

Yeah, it happened a couple times in my tests. Though, the smaller the region capitol the more effective the naffatun are. They are extremely effective on the units getting to close either way though.