[Proposal] Spies and other unsightly things

[ulti]

The world of Westeros has two faces - one of knights and shining armour, glory and honour upon the battlefield, and rivalries being settled with friendly debates. And then there is the underworld, home of the political intrigue, backstabbing, spying, even assassinations. Everybody has their price, all it takes is the right provocation.

Assassinations

The Ways to Kill Anonymous Assassination Pick your target Be sure to have a good reason for the assassination. This reason must be relevant and not OOC based. Moderators reserve the right to reject any assassination request if there is no valid reason that you wish to kill the target. PM a moderator stating: The Reason, The Location, The Target and the Items you wish to use. Any character traits aiding assassinations should also be detailed. The mod will post the rest, detailing the attempt, whether it succeeded or failed (and if so, whether you got captured). Your identity will not be released. Open Assassination Pick your target and get in the same thread as them Post requesting an assassination on your target. Ensure you post what equipment and traits regarding assassinations you have. If possible and time permits, notify a moderator with your reason for the assassination. The mod will post the rest (success/failure, whether escaped) Secret Open Assassination Pick your target and get in the same thread as them. They must acknowledge that they are alone. From here, follow standard open assassination steps. If possible and time permits, notify a moderator with your reason for the assassination. A mod will post the result. If successful, you are free to leave. If not, an escape roll is done, in this case a simple 10/20. Execution by the King If at any point you find yourself imprisoned in the Kings dungeons, he may at liberty lop off your head without an escape roll. If, after 4 real life days of captivity he has not killed you, you receive an escape roll, weighted against you. For every real life day after this, you receive one escape roll. If you have been caught by a Lords men and transferred to the King, you receive one escape roll weighted against you, before you are put in the dungeons. After that, the above rules apply. The Rolls and Chances Depending on your rank and location, the chances of being assassinated differ. Below, players are split into either Noble or Yoeman. A noble here is defined as: King, Prince/Princess, Lord/Lady, Lords Bannerman, the High Septon, Most Devout Septon, Lord Commander of the Night Watch, Commander of a NW Castle, First Officers of the Night Watch (First Builder, Steward Ranger), Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, Any seat upon the Small Council. A yoeman is any man who isn't one of the above ranks. At your Home (the thread you use to receive visitors) Nobles: 2/20 Yoemen: 5/20 In a neutral house (any other home thread except yours and the assassins) Nobles: 4/20 Yoemen: 8/20 In the assassins home (the thread he uses to receive visitors) Nobles: 15/20 Yoemen: 17/20 Any other indoor situation (ie a RP that takes place inside, like a wedding) Both: 10/20 An outside situation Both: 13/20 Group Assassinations If more than one person wishes to murder someone, the assassins may work together. Each extra person wishing to assassinate will add 1 to the chances of success. This comes at a price however, as groups are easier to catch than a lone ranger. If the group is attempting a closed or open assassination, each extra assassin takes one from the escape rolls, making it more likely you get caught. Hired Help There are options to help reduce the risk of an assassination. Retainer (nobles only) Instead of attempting yourself, you may opt to have a retainer (an NPC from your household) attempt for you. In this case, you must equip the retainer with any equipment. Note that retainers tend to be clumsy, so 2 is taken from the success and escape chances. If the retainer gets caught, you automatically lose the equipment you gave him, and standard questioning rules apply. Assassin If one is willing to spend some money, say 10000 Stags, one may hire the luxury of an assassin, who benefits from a +2 to all rolls, even if caught. With the assassin, there is less chance of your identity being revealed. Faceless Man If one is entirely desperate, and will easily part with a sum of 500 Dragons (100,000 stags), you buy the efficiency of a faceless man. The only way a victim may escape from the Faceless man is by rolling a straight 20. Even then, there is no escape roll as the Faceless Man kills by poison, and leaves before the chance of being discovered. Special Items Certain items may be bought in the shop to either aid or discourage assassination. Details may be found in the shop thread. Armour If a target is wearing armour, the modifier of that armour becomes an anti-assassination modifier, however the target must have posted he is wearing armour, unless he is on a battlefield, in which case he is assumed to be wearing armour. Escape All escape chances after an assassination (failed or successful, unless it is a secret open assassination) start at 20/20 (meaning you will always escape). Depending on the situation, certain modifiers reduce the chance of escape. These are: If using a melee weapon -1 If in a home thread -2 If in an enclosed area -1 Every guard present -1 Every neutral player present -1 Mods may, at their discretion, take up to -3 Failed Escape If you fail your escape roll, you are at the mercy of your captor. If you yourself attempted the assassination, you may as well start kissing the feet of your captor and hope the King forgives. If you sent a retainer or an assassin, they will be tortured for information. The rolls below are for a retainer, for an assassin take two from the chances for each roll. 1-5 - Captive dies in questioning without revealing anything 6-10 - Captive dies in questioning but reveals the identity of his master 11-20 - Captive survives and reveals the identity. He may be used as evidence in court. Battlefield Assassinations If a commander is killed on the battlefield, morale takes a hit. Reflecting this, is a noble character gets assassinated on the battlefield, they cause a hit to the rolls according to rank. King is assasinated -5 to the armies battle roll Lord is assasinated -3 to the armies battle roll Bannerman is assasinated -2 to the armies battle roll

Spying

Much of the political intrigue and plotting in Westeros goes on behind closed doors, or via the ravens on secretive letters. Although careful steps are taken to keep plans secret, highly trained individuals exist who can spin vast webs of conspiracy from scraps of information. For various prices, different members of the Guild of Whispers may be hired, giving various returns. The possible spies are as follows: Trainee Spy - 1000 Stags - Due to being a beginner, this spy is by far the cheapest, however takes a -2 hit to all rolls. Adept Spy - 10000 Stags - A fully fledged guild member, though nothing special. He has no bonus to the base rolls. Master Spy - 30000 Stags - A highly trained spy, often found heading regional guildhouses. He has a +2 to all rolls. Guildmaster - 50000 Stags - The leader of the Guild of Whispers, the guildmaster receives a +4 bonus to all rolls. The Rolls To spy, a player must PM a moderator explaining which spy the are hiring, and which thread they wish to target. The mod will then perform the rolls, and depending on the result disclose a certain amount of information on any 'secrets' the thread may contain. This allows previously OOC only knowledge to become IC knowledge. 1-5 - The spy is captured and may be tortured for information. 6-7 - The spy fails to gain any information, though remains undetected. 8-10 - The spy happens upon a small amount of information, revealing the brief outline of a hidden plan. 11-15 The spy happens upon a medium amount of information, revealing some details of a hidden plan. 16-19 The spy happens upon a large amount of information, revealing an in depth plan. 20 - The spy happens upon the jackpot, revealing all aspects of a hidden plan. *Note* Moderators remain all discretion when revealing the plans of the target. Their decision based upon the roll and the context is final - you accept this when you ask for the spy roll to be done. Counterspying Rest assured, your plans may yet be safe - if you are as devious as those after your secrets. Those who do not make it in the Guild of Whispers, yet learn of their methods, may be hired on a permanent basis to discourage spying. For each counterspy (purchased from the shop), you receive a +1 bonus against spies. Furthermore, if a spy is captured, there is a +2 bonus to the torture roll, in account of the fact your counterspy knows how to loosen their tongues.

This isn't finished, I intend to add rules regarding spies soon. And yes, I am aware we already have rules for assassinations already, however I feel this clears them up and removes some aspects I found were confusing. Feel free to debate whilst I work on the next bit (though that may be a while coming).

[Clagius]

Looking nice, but if you're going to be executed by the King in King's Landing your escape chances would be like 0.0001%.

[Adamat]

Overall, i like this.

[Bonez]

Umm, faceless men were put so high a price intentionally as they shouldn't be able to be used that often. At 15000 stags all you need to do is sack a decent sized city and you could kill several of your fiercest foes with ease. I think atleast 200 Dragons, 40,000 Stags should be the price.

[Adamat]

I don't know how much you get for sacking...

[Lucius Malfoy]

I don't know how much you get for sacking...

Probably depends on the size and importance of the city. For instance, if you sack a city like King's Landing, you will get a ton of money since it is the capital. Provincial capitals like Storm's End would be second largest in loot. Then came smaller cities like Summerhall or Casterly Rock...and then isolated villages would give you little to no loot.

[Bonez]

- Pillage and Loot
One of the main motivations for a Noble Lord participating in Westeros - this was the grease which kept the cogs of war running. Bannermen and Lords just simply wouldn't embark on campaign unless there was a garuntee of loot and plunder, and if the King failed to provide such revenue it would result in him becoming incredibly unpopular indeed. In Westeros we have a very simple method for representing the sack and pillage of foreign settlements or indeed other nobles settlements during times of warfare. Castles and Cities are delegated by the moderation team as one of four different types of settlement.

Village: A small village or town with no walls. No Pillage.

Minor settlement: A small town surrounded by a pallisade including a small garrison (usually with a maximum of 2+ fortifications). Capturing this settlement yields D20 x 1000 Stags, to be distributed by the King or Campaign leader at the end of campaign.

Minor City: A Large town surrounded by a stone wall, keep and moat, including a large Garrsion (usually with a minimun of 4+ fortifications) Capturing this settlement yields D20 x 5000 Stags, to be distributed by the King or Campaign leader at the end of campaign.

Capital City: A very large and extensively fortified city, with an equally large Garrison (8+ fortifications) Capturing this settlement yields D20 x 10000 Stags, to be distributed by the King or Campaign leader at the end of campaign.

Taken from our respective rules.

[Bonez]

Double freaking post...

[Gandalfus]

How would casterly rock give small loot? It's the capital of the west with lots of gold...

[Bonez]

LM, wasn't thinking. It would be Capital City level loot wise.

[Lucius Malfoy]

Yeah I was throwing out random locations...wasn't using concrete thinking.

[Gandalfus]

lol its fine

[Narf]

Is this taking into account the current duel/assassination rules?

[Bonez]

Duel rules are completely different. This is taking into effect those, and apparently making them clearer and adding a few parts.

[Narf]

Duel rules are not different. They are the same except the assassin get the first hit uncontested.

[ulti]

To be honest Narf, I do not believe in the duel rules for assassinations - it should be hit or miss, then run. In real life, an assassin wouldn't risk duelling his target just to kill him, he would retreat and try again another day. As such, it has been removed from the proposed ruleset.

Regarding the faceless men, my bad It's this two coin system that got me confused, I thought (in my sleep deprived state) that the dragons were actually stags. I had intended to have a massive price for them. Will edit that in now whilst I devise the rules for spying. Will also up the amount for a normal assassin as well, to say 5000 stags. I would like incentive for people to actually carry out assassinations themselves, makes for more intrigue.

[Narf]

To be honest Narf, I do not believe in the duel rules for assassinations - it should be hit or miss, then run. In real life, an assassin wouldn't risk duelling his target just to kill him, he would retreat and try again another day. As such, it has been removed from the proposed ruleset.

And he can do that with the current rules, BUT as would be a possibility realisticly, He CAN stey and try to fight his target, It should not be as simple as Hit or miss. It dosn't work It breaks immersion. One should have the Possibility to fight and try to finish the target.

[ulti]

Personally, as a mod, that is going to take too much work methinks. Having experienced the GSTK method, it seems to work better as just a hit and run aspect, without bringing the complications of a duel into it. Though if you guys want, I can add a potential section about that in, and when we vote we can choose which one we'd like (if any).

Just before I go any further, I would like to get your opinions on whether spying should be an aspect of the rules. The concept of spying requires one party finding information on another which is supposed to be private. This is all fine and good if it is written down IG, where people may see it, there could be a chance of that falling into the wrong hands. However much plotting goes on behind the scenes on msn or PM's, and I think it highly unlikely, however honourable the player, that people will be willing to reveal their plans at the roll of a dice.

If I am brutally honest, I think any chance of spying should come RP wise (ie posting that you overheard someone if you are in the same thread). That way everyone is on a level playing field, having only the chance to use information they gain through RP. If this is the way, arbitration can be done by the mods without need for rolls.

If you feel otherwise however, take a look at the small bit I've done for spies and see if it's something you'd like to implement.

[Narf]

Personally, as a mod, that is going to take too much work methinks. Having experienced the GSTK method, it seems to work better as just a hit and run aspect, without bringing the complications of a duel into it. Though if you guys want, I can add a potential section about that in, and when we vote we can choose which one we'd like (if any).

But it is not complicated, this is what they use in GSTK as-well now. IT is what we have in place, doesn't need a vote. This just need to build on the current system. Which is a good system that allow much more freedom than the more older and simpler version did.

[Majonga]

First, I am with Bonez, the facelessmen should be very expensive to hire. As in, only the king and perhaps the major houses could possibly afford it.

Second, the Spying could work out like a Scouting Roll. For example, with a scouting roll, you know where your enemy is OOC, but you can't attack them unless your army has 'Discovered them'. It would be the same with spies. If things have been said in private or elsewhere, you will know about them OOC, but to know about them IC and act on them, you must use spies. This might be a way to work against metagaming, since you are not allowed to use certain information, but there is a way that you can learn of it.

Furthermore, you can recruit spies to undertake counter spying. For example, if you set up spies in Kingslanding to spy on the King, the King can hire his own spies to remove your spies. Not sure if this would work better in secret or out in the open.