Guess what happened to Capua

**Wheem** · June 18, 2006, 01:40 AM

Because your guess is as good as mine; darn that stupid lack-of-in-game-messages bug!

I've got a campaign going as the Scipii now, and am around 230BC. So far, my campaign is going decently well, but nearly half of the ~28,000 people of Capua are all dead, and I have absolutely no idea how, or why.

I hadnt paid much attention to the city in a few turns, and when construction on a building finished, I happened to notice that the population was dramatically lower, and all my garrison units were at 68 men, instead of 80.

My first thought was that I'd had a riot (I've had severe riots in the past with 1.5, bad enough that family members were killed, but I didnt notice it for several turns because I got *no* in game message about it). However, none of the buildings in the city were damaged. My next thought was that I had the plague (since a unit outside the city was damaged as well), but wouldnt my units have lost more than 12 men each if the plague lasted long enough to kill ~13 thousand civilians? I've had floods in the past, but that always damaged buildings too. Is there some other natural disaster it could have been? Or was it just a short duration plague that wiped out a lot of people at once?

Im slightly confused about what happened, and it irritates the fire outta me when stuff like this happens, and I get no in game warning about it. It makes me "paranoid," and honestly takes some of the fun out of the game. I dont want to constantly have to check every single far-away and/or large-pop province I own, just to see if the garrisons/buildings/population are getting wiped out by riots/natural disasters. The afformentioned family member death to a riot in a different campaign was the worst, though. One of my top 2 or 3 generals, dead in a riot that I didnt even know happened.

Im thinking the messages bug is hardcoded, and something that cant be mod-fixed?

**Revan The Great** · June 18, 2006, 01:58 AM

Vesuvius happened to Capua... And Etna happened to Messana about...50 or so years prior. It involves a mountain shooting out really hot red water onto the city. Go to Wikipedia and type in "Pompeii"

**Silver Guard** · June 18, 2006, 02:13 AM

Its the volcano, you should see smoke and flames, if not you missed it but the volcano itself should look different. it would explain the lossed, however a message should have popped up saying 'eruption at vesuvius', im surprised that you didn't get one

**Wheem** · June 18, 2006, 04:54 AM

There's a bug (I've only noticed it with 1.5) where you sometimes dont get messages like that.

I got no message involving Capua, so I had no clue what caused it. It was the same thing with the riot I mentioned killing a family member in a different campaign. That time, I got no message that a family member had died in any way, and no message that there was any rioting, in any province. The only way that I noticed at all, was that I was looking at the family tree, and noticed that guy was dead, and had been since the previous year. I was confused, so I checked the settlement he was in, and noticed the rioting icon, and that some of my garrison troops were dead as well.

I must have missed the volcano eruption by a few turns, since I didnt notice any eruption graphic, either. I always get the event warning about Mt. Etna's eruption, but the event no longer kills troops/civilians in 1.5 (as far as I can tell). I know that it used to, but I've not seen it happen in 1.5

I used to *always* get messages when I would gain traits or have retinue expansion, now it's really hit and miss. Sometimes I'll get the messages, sometimes I wont. I've never had it not give me a warning about town expansion or building/unit completion, but lots of other stuff doesnt alert, all the time. It's a rather irritating bug.

**Severous** · June 18, 2006, 05:50 AM

Hi

I think the bug in RTW V1.5 re messages is :

When an AI enemy attacks you over the turn end all the riot/disaster messages are supressed. I observe this as I engineer riots most turns to maximise tax and governor traits and there appears to be a high correlation between enemy attacks and message loss.

**roman_crusader** · June 18, 2006, 06:35 AM

when there are riots, and a family member dies, it tells you that the family member has been "affected" in the riots... ie he's dead...

**Wheem** · June 18, 2006, 06:45 AM

when there are riots, and a family member dies, it tells you that the family member has been "affected" in the riots... ie he's dead...

That's what's supposed to happen. In my case though, it didnt. I got *no* message about the riot. I got *no* message about family members dying (and he was only middle aged). If I hadnt just happened to glance at my family tree, and notice my general dead, I never would have known the riots were taking place.

Thanks for the information Severous, I'll see if I can do a little testing with that myself. I am at war with Egypt afterall, and there have been several large battles (and with the size of Egypt's army, probably a lot more to come

)

**Severous** · June 18, 2006, 07:13 AM

This is quite an important little bug.

- It explains why some people have reported not seeing the 'chance for power' message.

- Natural disasters add spice to the game..nice to see a volcano going off or an earthquake.

- If you get no riot message you are just one turn away from a rebellion and losing the city. Unless you check all cities each turn you could find yourself down one or more cities without any warning.

**Wheem** · June 18, 2006, 11:09 PM

I loaded a slightly older save game, and just kept ending my turn to see if the same would happen to Capua, and if I'd ever get any message.

I did this twice, and got 0 messages either time. Within about 3 turns of my older save, my Garrison units would lose troops, as would the unit standing just outside the city. If I looked very closely at the volcano, I could see very small puffs of smoke coming from the top, but no lava, like I'd normally expect. Also, the city's population stayed basically intact, both of these times, whereas when it happened without me noticing, nearly half of the people were killed (but strangely enough; no buildings destroyed/damaged).

I find this lack of messages bug to be extremely frustrating.

**NobleNick** · June 19, 2006, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Severous

- It explains why some people have reported not seeing the 'chance for power' message...

Thanks Severous. This is the best explanation offered, yet, of why I never saw this message.

**roman_crusader** · June 20, 2006, 01:01 AM

It tells you that the character has been affected in the Civil Revolt message. That always comes up for me... I think its civil revolt or riot, I'm not sure... but in that message, it tells you which buildings were damaged, how many civilians and soldiers died, and which characters were affected, if they were.

**Severous** · June 20, 2006, 03:43 PM

Here was a particulary important rioting message that I did get.

That was our faction leader in a succession/swap campaign I was playing in another forum. Died in a riot in a dusty out of the way african town.

The main point of this thread is about the circumstances when such messages dont appear. Its not that often that I am attacked during the AI turn but next time it happens I will check to see if any expected riot messages didnt occur. I will then revert to a save and play it differently to see if I can prove conclusively to myself that there is a bug here.

**Wheem** · June 20, 2006, 04:06 PM

Oh yes; forgot to post about the AI attacking thing. It doesnt seem to be the trigger, or at least, doesnt *always* trigger it. During my reloads to see if I would get any messages regarding Capua, I let the game go for quite a while, one time. I didnt move any armies, I didnt build troops, and I didnt build any structures; I just let the game go. Of course, riots started popping up, and I was getting messages for them (though I wasnt paying attention to see if there were any that might have *not* come up). During one of the AI turns, an army from Numidia attacked an army that I had sitting in the field. Since I was just testing for the in-game messages, I auto-resolved it, and when my turn came up, I got riot messages.

So Im still somewhat confused as to what the trigger is. Perhaps it only happens if you play out the battle? Or maybe it just doesnt always happen after you are attacked by an AI army? Perhaps some other trigger? Im really not sure.

**Severous** · June 20, 2006, 04:19 PM

Thanks for that Wheem.

Maybe its the amount of time taken over end of turn ? A short time and you get messgaes (autocalc). Yet if you take a long time, in manual battles for instance, then the message triggers get lost ?

Or...taking screenshots over turn end might somehow loose the message triggers.

Clutching at straws now.....

**Wheem** · June 21, 2006, 02:50 AM

I havent really noticed anything that I could nail down as the trigger for the bug. It shouldnt be too hard to further test the getting-attacked-by-AI theory.

Save a campaign game, move an army into enemy territory, and then intentionally send some of your cities into riot-level happiness (tax hikes, moving some garrison out, etc...) Let the enemy attack you some (maybe auto-resolve some fights, play out others), and maybe try a few attacks of your own, to see if that has any effect.

It could be something totally unrelated though, Im really not sure. It is a nasty little bug though.