Official Medieval 2: Total War Tournament of Legends

[Sursion]

Welcome to the Official Medieval 2: Total War Tournament of Legends!

View the tournament standings, leave comments, and more here:
http://challonge.com/m2twotl

Round 5 has begun!

Description:
Every faction (excluding The Aztecs and kingdoms factions) will partake in the round robin. The results of this will determine the seed for a double elimination bracket. 5 matches will be played per day. The replays will be attached to the match cards, and a replay will also be uploaded to youtube. The number next to the names in the match card are the kills each faction got in the battle. These have no influence over the results, as each match will be last man standing. Battlefields will rotate across matches. Extremely mountainous terrain (IE. Swiss Alps) will be excluded. Each match will be played using the following mods: Retrofit v1.0, GUAM V6.0, ReallyBadAI v5.6. If you wish to watch the replays, these three mods are required. The Aztecs are excluded because they are a 100% infantry faction. Kingdoms factions are excluded because it would be impossible to pit them against each other (Wales vs. Jerusalem, for example). The competitors will be fully controlled by the AI (not AI assistance) to remove human skill and bias variables. Each match will have a 15 minute time limit.

Rules:
-Each faction get’s 15,000 florins. All of it must be used (or as close to zero as it can get).
-Each faction must have their general in a bodyguard unit. This unit must have a silver chevron (experiance) and both weapon and armour upgrades (where applicable).
-1 artillery: Limit of one artillery unit (excluding carroccio’s and the great cross).
-6/2 cavalry: Limit of 6 cavalry units. Either 2 missile and 4 melee, 1 missile and 5 melee, or 0 missile, 6 melee. Bodyguard counts towards this.
-1 firearm unit: Only one firearm unit is permitted. This can be one firearm cavalry and one arquebusier, but not two of the same (not 2 arquebusiers, etc.).
-Elephants count as missile cavalry. Elephant artillery counts as both cavalry and artillery.
-2 spearwalls: Limit of 2 spearwall units, due to their scaryness and morale crushing stats (halberd militia, pikemen, etc.).
-Knights: Limit of one unit per knight class (knights, or any dismounted unit). Maximum of four knight units total (one chivalric knight + one noble knight okay. 2 chivalric knights not okay). Men at Arms exempt from this rule.
-Maximum of 4 units of any class (4 spear militia, etc.).
-Red card rule: If a unit is redded out (their card in the roster is red), it can not be recruited anymore. Normally this is already covered by other rules, but there are some exceptions.

FAQ:
Q: How do I install replays?
A: Click the little paperclip on the match card and download the file. Place it in the 'replays' folder of your retrofit mod (create one if one doesn't exist). Simply open up the game, go to 'load' and select 'Battle Replays.' Voila.
Q: What is a round robin?
A: A round robin is a type of tournament in which every player/faction/team fights each other player/faction/team at least once. By this method, it is much easier to determine the strength of each and eliminate variables like 'luck.' For example, there are 20 factions participating, so there will be 20 rounds. In these 20 rounds, each faction faces each other faction once.
Q: Why are you doing a round robin?
A: It will help determine the seed for the double elimination bracket. It also helps factions to get a lot of playing time in.
Q: What is a seed?
A: A seed determines how good a team/faction/whatever is. The best faction will be the top seed, the worst faction will be the bottom seed, etc. This is neccessary for setting up good games. Using this method, good players will play against good players, while bad players will play against bad players, resulting in evenly balanced and enjoyable games (instead of one faction steamrolling it's way throught the bracket).
Q: How do you get the AI to control both factions?
A: I set up a spot just for myself and give myself one unit. During deployment, I deploy right on the edge of the map. Once the game starts, I withdraw them. The other two AI factions will then fight each other.
Q: How do I watch the Youtube replays?
A: Click the paperclip for the match you want to watch, and a link will be provided there.
Q: What is the point system for? A faction had more points but still lost, what does this mean?
A: The 'points' is simply how many kills that faction got in the match. Since it is last-man-standing, it does not determine the winner. I included it because it is still useful in seeing how well a faction performed in their match.

If you have any questions or feedback or whatever, feel free to leave a comment. The tournament board updates in real time, so it will always be up to date.

[lolIsuck]

Can I ask what round robin is?

[Sursion]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round-robin_tournament

"In theory a round robin tournament is the fairest way to determine a champion among a known and fixed number of participants. Each player or team has an equal chance against all other participants. The element of luck is seen to be reduced as compared to a knockout system since a few bad performances need not cripple a competitor's chances of ultimate victory. A participant's final record is thus seen to be more accurately represented in the results since it was arrived at over a prolonged period against equal competition. This can also be used to determine which teams are the poorest performers and thus subject to relegation if the format is used in a multi-tiered league."

Basically, each faction plays each individual faction at least once. The wins and losses are recorded. Since the AI can be hit or miss, I thought it would be a good way to get a grasp of how good each faction (and their army build) is.

Updated the FAQ.

[fredtrotter]

I think It would be better to use Vanilla because then everyone can view the matches easily.

[Sursion]

I think It would be better to use Vanilla because then everyone can view the matches easily.

If I use vanilla, there's a lot of bugs (2 handed weapon bug, etc.) and there's not as much balance in the unit rosters. I think the AI would be fine without ReallyBadAI, but I don't think that's required for the replays, so its all fine.

Too complicated for my taste..

What's complicated about it?

[SturmChurro]

Too complicated for my taste..

[lolIsuck]

How does the point system work? Spain has less points then the Timurids but they won.

[Sursion]

How does the point system work? Spain has less points then the Timurids but they won.

Those numbers are simply the amount of kills the factions got. They have no influence over who wins (since they are playing Last-Man-Standing). I included them simply to show the performance.

[Macunaíma]

Is there a way to watch the replays without the mods? I don't really want to install them.

[Sursion]

~Double post~

[Sursion]

Unfortunately, no

Although I could just record the match with FRAPS and put it on Youtube. The problem with that is that you can only see what I'm showing you. With a replay, you can see whatever you want at any time. Would people prefer that?

Also, it will take longer for me to do this (filming, editing, uploading, etc.), so it will probably take longer for the tournament to be updated (so I can upload the replays at the same time as the updates for consistancy).

[Avatar]

I dont have the mods, but based on vanilla surely some factions are more suited to defensive battles than others? If I had an active hand in a Milanese battle, I would be lining up the crossbowmen behind the men at arms/broken lances and laughing at anyone that came near.

Surely an AI only battle is going to mess up the order of battle?

[Sursion]

I dont have the mods, but based on vanilla surely some factions are more suited to defensive battles than others? If I had an active hand in a Milanese battle, I would be lining up the crossbowmen behind the men at arms/broken lances and laughing at anyone that came near.

Surely an AI only battle is going to mess up the order of battle?

If you set up crossbowmen behind an infantry line, they will just shoot their own men in the back. Crossbows can't arc like an arrow can.

Regardless, this was still a concern, and is why I have so many rules in place. A faction can't have more than 4 of the same unit, so Milan can only have 4 pavise crossbowmen. I wanted to keep it as balanced as possible, while still utilizing the factions strengths and weaknesses. A cavalry heavy faction like France would flank those Milanese crossbowmen and rout them.

[Avatar]

If you set up crossbowmen behind an infantry line, they will just shoot their own men in the back. Crossbows can't arc like an arrow can.

Regardless, this was still a concern, and is why I have so many rules in place. A faction can't have more than 4 of the same unit, so Milan can only have 4 pavise crossbowmen. I wanted to keep it as balanced as possible, while still utilizing the factions strengths and weaknesses. A cavalry heavy faction like France would flank those Milanese crossbowmen and rout them.

As far as I read your rules, Milan can field both Genoese crossbows and crossbow militia perfectly fine. I should perhaps have used England as an example though, because they would have much the same tactic except with archers and stakes to put off all that pesky cavalry.

[Sursion]

As far as I read your rules, Milan can field both Genoese crossbows and crossbow militia perfectly fine. I should perhaps have used England as an example though, because they would have much the same tactic except with archers and stakes to put off all that pesky cavalry.

If Milan had something like 8 units of crossbows, I doubt they'd do very well. They'd have either a cavalry or infantry disadvantage. Also, the AI doesn't know how to use stakes. So that's never a concern.

Regardless of all this however, I try to make it as balanced as possible. I wouldn't want to stack Milan with crossbowmen because it would either hamper them or give them too great of an advantage.

[lolIsuck]

Crossbows can shoot over lines if you put them far enough after the line. They also won't shoot your own men in the back, they will shoot into the air.

[Sursion]

You give the AI too much credit

I went back to record the replays and unfortunately, I cannot. For some inexplicable reason, the replays got corrupted somehow. The replays are not showing what actually happened. The results are different, the kills/captures are different, the entire battle is wrong.

From now on I will be recording the battles live, so that this will not happen again. But unfortunately, the first 5 battles will be unviewable. You have my apologies. At least I discovered this now, and not later.

[Dismounted Ritterbrüder]

double post

[Dismounted Ritterbrüder]

You give the AI too much credit

I went back to record the replays and unfortunately, I cannot. For some inexplicable reason, the replays got corrupted somehow. The replays are not showing what actually happened. The results are different, the kills/captures are different, the entire battle is wrong.

From now on I will be recording the battles live, so that this will not happen again. But unfortunately, the first 5 battles will be unviewable. You have my apologies. At least I discovered this now, and not later.

Yeah, that's a MAJOR bug in the game. The replays don't even capture exactly what happened; just your general mouse clicks.

[Mill Wilkinson]

You got my support. This will be an interesting tournament, to say the least. Especially putting up Youtube vids eases the viewability when some of us (like me) might be restricted as to what mods they use. ^^