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  1. #1

    Icon4 RTRVII concerns

    Being a major fan of Rome Total Realism and having played the mod for many, many years now, I can only say that I was delighted beyond belief when I saw that RTRVII had been released. Having now installed it and had time to play, though, I have some major concerns, none of which have to do with factions or gameplay - from a purely game-experience perspective, RTRVII is impeccable and I applaud the RTR team for their efforts and incredible achievements.

    That being said, I am very concerned with the use of images and information from the HBO series Rome. Don't get me wrong, there was never a greater fan of the series, and I frequently re-watch it, having both seasons on DVD. That being said, despite being more accurate than movies like Gladiator or The Eagle, entertaining though they both may be, Rome is all the same not an accurate depiction of Roman history or, more to the point, the Roman army. The point of RTR, to my understanding, is to bring realism to a game that was nearly as devoid of it as these aforementioned movies, the idea being to keep the gritting, high-stakes feel of the game but in a believable environment, the goal of which I believe the latest version 6 of RTR (RTRPE) accomplished without equal.

    So it is quite concern, to my mind, to see RTRVII riddled with images of Rome and even making use of the style of helmets and shields depicted in that series. To begin with, RTRPE kept me focused and entirely subsumed by the game, so that it was likely to be closest I would ever come to experiencing the conquest of the Mediterranean basin, even if the RTW vanilla cards as bit goofy - that was part of the experience because at least they were cartoony. With the stills from Rome, however, every time I look at my financial stats or I attack an army (or am I attacked) or anything happens, the still from the series draws me completely out of the game and ruins the effect. Maybe this is just me.

    More concerning, though, is a still image of in-game legionaries (which I see during the load screen) that shows the legionaries equipped as the legionaries in Rome, namely using the bronze helmets with the loop hole at the top and the shield style from the series. Neither of these is accurate to the historical record, the helmet itself being a great sticking point which embarrassed at least one museum in Spain when it was pointed out to them that the helmet they had was a modern-created hoax.

    I don't wish to degrade the achievements accomplished by the team, but rather provide some constructive criticism and express the concerns of at least one avid gamer. Perhaps these concerns are my own alone and no one else agrees, but all the same I feel compelled to express them. Is there perhaps a way to "turn off" the images from Rome in favor the RTW cards?
    Lucius Tertinius Severus
    Legio VI FFC

  2. #2
    AngryTitusPullo's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: RTRVII concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Ter. Catalonius Luciano View Post
    I don't wish to degrade the achievements accomplished by the team, but rather provide some constructive criticism and express the concerns of at least one avid gamer. Perhaps these concerns are my own alone and no one else agrees, but all the same I feel compelled to express them. Is there perhaps a way to "turn off" the images from Rome in favor the RTW cards?
    If your main concern is about historical and realism then would the RTW card be much much more unhistorical ?


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  3. #3

    Default Re: RTRVII concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Matsudaira Takechiyo View Post
    If your main concern is about historical and realism then would the RTW card be much much more unhistorical ?
    Maybe I didn't approach that the right way, because in that sense one isn't "more historical" than the other. I suppose the RTW cards seem be more "classic" than the Rome ones, which are, frankly, jarring, not just because of their ahistorical nature but because they also include real, living persons rather than the cartoony style. I suppose I'm thinking of it in terms of themes.
    Lucius Tertinius Severus
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  4. #4
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: RTRVII concerns

    I don't like them either, tbh.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  5. #5
    Maurits's Avatar ЯTR
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    Default Re: RTRVII concerns

    M, do you know when and why they were added to the mod?

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  6. #6
    AngryTitusPullo's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: RTRVII concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Maurits View Post
    M, do you know when and why they were added to the mod?
    It was part of Imperator actually. Now sure who and when put them in RTR build. Don't remember putting'em on RTR 7 build and certainly wasn't in TIC.

    Someone must have put'em in the FOE build.


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    Caligula Caesar's Avatar Horse Lord
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    Default Re: RTRVII concerns

    They were certainly added a long time ago... as were the legionaries. I don't know what discussions happened when the legionaries were added, but I am confident the helmets were added were done so at the instruction of our historians. However, if you can demonstrate that these helmets were never in use, we should be able to change them. You can take a closer look at them in custom battles, by the way.
    RTR-VII Team Leader and Leader of Fortuna Orbis, an RTR Submod

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  8. #8
    Maurits's Avatar ЯTR
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    Default Re: RTRVII concerns

    About which units are we talking? Note that only the republican and 'Marian' Roman troops are fully developed and supported, the imperial troops are just there as eye-candy and do not belong to the mods' time frame. Therefore, it would be nonsense to waste time on improving them. When this is about the units used in the game, though, we should certainly look into it together with our historians

    Btw, I actually liked the pics, it's something different... but that's just my opinion

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  9. #9
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: RTRVII concerns

    I was talking about the pics actually. I agree their photographic quality does not fit in with the rest of the artwork. The Roman units are quite old. They pre-date TIC.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  10. #10
    AngryTitusPullo's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: RTRVII concerns

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    I was talking about the pics actually. I agree their photographic quality does not fit in with the rest of the artwork. The Roman units are quite old. They pre-date TIC.
    The Roman units are among the earliest done together with the Getai units. Pre-dated TIC and certainly pre-date TWC


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  11. #11
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: RTRVII concerns

    Btw, I actually liked the pics, it's something different... but that's just my opinion
    I do also but I think either every faction should have them or none. IIRC, there are also some pictures from Alexander movie in Antigonid building description.
    I think this movie is a good candidate for some Carthaginian pistures:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXnxdVcnqI0

  12. #12

    Default Re: RTRVII concerns

    the Roman units, from what i recall, were fully vetted through the Hist Dept. threads discussing them are still available in the archived parts of the Dev forum

    (i assume we're talking talking about the Marian units...)

  13. #13

    Default Re: RTRVII concerns

    Regarding the Roman units, I am referring to a specific photo/screenshot that it appears during the loading screen as I have not yet encountered them. The helmet with the ring on the top is not supported by the historical record, the single alleged helmet being a known fraud. The only hint that something like this may have existed comes from Trajan's column, but even if we accept those are real and not artistic license it's still dreadfully out of place in the Republic.
    Lucius Tertinius Severus
    Legio VI FFC

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