Best Trained Military?

Each country tended to have its own strengths and weaknesses.

For example, the Russians and Germans relied on iron discipline, their soldiers held the line and performed better in the bayonet charge, and were able to hold their formations better on the move simply because they spent more time marching and doing bayonet drill. Their musketry tended to suffer because neither one provided a large number of shots for live fire training, which they considered of less importance than melee and marching skills. The Germans considered rate of fire to be more important than accuracy, and the Russians didn't think musketry was all that important anyway.

I'd talk about the other countries, but I'm sure somebody else will and my brain is so fried right now.

Basically, in the end I would say there was no definite 'best' military through the whole of the Napoleonic Wars, otherwise it would have been over much more quickly

Originally Posted by click2kill

Which country produced the best trained soldiers during the napoleonic wars? I'm not familiar with this stuff, just got curious because of the game.

Taking the question at face value - there is no doubt in my mind that the answer has to be the French Grande Armee of 1805 which consisted of veterans from the revolutionary wars and new recruits who trained together in the Channel camps for years!

The problem Wellington's army had was that it was a combined force of allied troop (especially at Waterloo), not just British. In the Peninsula War for example, Portugese troops were given British style training, allowing for fluid commands throughout the army. Still though, I agree with Mr. Masséna above me Grande Armee was easily the best in 1805/6

Originally Posted by Imperial Redcoat

The problem Wellington's army had was that it was a combined force of allied troop (especially at Waterloo), not just British. In the Peninsula War for example, Portugese troops were given British style training, allowing for fluid commands throughout the army. Still though, I agree with Mr. Masséna above me Grande Armee was easily the best in 1805/6

The problem with Wellington's army at Waterloo was that most of the soldiers in it were green recruits a month out of training, sometimes less. Some people talk of 'Dutch courage', but the British were just as prone to suddenly routing in that battle as the Dutch and the newly levied French soldiers. In one case, it was the British who routed while the Dutch had to jump in and save the allied artillery from the French Middle Guard. Regardless, Waterloo is not a good example of anybody's military capability at its finest. It was a scuffle during a police action.


As to your second post, Suvorov is an interesting character. His revolutionary doctrine of "treating your soldiers like actual people" caused quite a stir

Depends what time in the wars you're talking about. In the Revolutionary Wars it was definitely Austria and Prussia, then in the early 1800's it was France, and then in the last few years of the Napoleonic Wars it was probably Great Britain and Prussia.

Originally Posted by The Rt Hon. Daniel Ryan

Depends what time in the wars you're talking about. In the Revolutionary Wars it was definitely Austria and Prussia, then in the early 1800's it was France, and then in the last few years of the Napoleonic Wars it was probably Great Britain and Prussia.

Over the course of the wars I would agree with this. Austrian military might was shattered at Austerlitz, though it was on a decline since 1800. I would remark though that Russian intervention by Suvorov in the Italian campaign of 1800 caused a nightmare for the French

Originally Posted by Imperial Redcoat

Over the course of the wars I would agree with this. Austrian military might was shattered at Austerlitz, though it was on a decline since 1800. I would remark though that Russian intervention by Suvorov in the Italian campaign of 1800 caused a nightmare for the French

I think that the decline of the Austrians started back in 1796 when Napoleon took command of the Army of Italy, the loss of Mantua and repeated defeats at the hands of the French on the shores of Lake Rivioli shook the Hapsburg's appetite for war. And quite right, Suvorov was a thorn in the Frenchmen's' sides.

If you ask me, the modernised 1806 Montenegrin army that recieved all the 1804/5 equipment from Russia, as Montenegro was, not in theory but actually was a protectorate of the Russian Empire.... In 1806, a force of 13,500 Montenegrins under Vladika Petar I of Montenegro ( St. Peter of Cetinje <Sainted later by Peter II of Montenegro>, Peter I Petrović-Njegoš - his names ) defeated a much larger and better equipped force of French and Croatian mercenaries at dates are in 1806 )
June 25th - French crossed the Montenegrin border, war begins without any declarations
June 26th - Montenegrin army is organised at Cetinje, commanded by Peter I and Knjaz (<<Duke) Mrđo Jovanović, under supervision of Admiral Senyanin ( Russian admiral ).
June 27th - Admiral Senyanin is greeted by the Montenegrins about 10km south of Kotor Bay
June 28th - Big battle of Kotor Bay, heavy cassualities for the French ( who had ~45.000 men ), Montenegrins lose about 3000
June 30th - Montenegrins cross the French/Croatian border and head for Cavtat, which is abandoned, French entrench themselves at Dubrovnik
July 4th - Montenegrins arrive at Dubrovnik, Admiral Senyanin provides cannon fire from the ships, Russian grenadiers are also present at the battle, yet retreat quickly
July 7th - After 3 days of intense fighting, the French general Horace Sebastiani evades into Herzegovina, an Ottoman province, Dubrovnik falls under Montenegro-Russian command...

*Result for the Montenegrins :
~Armed forces before the war : 16000
~After the battles :11500
~Territory expansion
~Honor, the most important for Montenegrins

*Results for the French:
~Before they started the advance : 55.000
~At Dubrovnik : 12.000 ( this is from those 55k )
~Advanced into Montenegro : 42.500
~Participated in the Battle of Kotor Bay : 40.000( the rest were deserters, smart people... )
~Lost at Kotor bay : ~30.000 **The rest withdrew to Dubrovnik, yet continued to retreat towards Split to call for help
~From Split, help went : 6.000 ** To aid at Dubrovnik, they never came **
~Finishing result : ~40.000 French, Poles & Croats DEAD, the rest mainly wounded or deserted
~Horace Sebastiani removed as General, than went to serve as the French ambasador in Istambul, capital of the Ottoman Empire


Montenegrins were quite a force in those days, too bad they ain't now, well, more or less, they got an awesomely disciplined navy....