A few questions about SS 6.4 units

**Cheezy the Wiz** · April 21, 2012, 08:30 AM

There's a few strange things I've noticed about some units in SS. First, there are rebel Hussite units in Bohemia in the Early Age, yet they never appear again. The Hussite Wars weren't for hundreds of years after the game begins, and they seem to just be a copy of Halberd Militia anyway. Why don't they exist elsewhere in the game, either as a resurgent rebel unit, or as a hireable mercenary, or as a locally trained unit in Bohemia?

Also, this website (http://www.pressdat.com/mtw2/index.html) about Real Recruitment says, for example, that Albanian Cavalry are recruitable as mercenaries in Greece and the Balkans after 1280...I've never seen them before. It also falsely claims that HRE can build Teutonic Chapter Houses before 1200 and recruit their knights, and also that Master Woodsmens' Guilds yield Sherwood Archers for the English..neither has ever been allowed for me. Indeed, the Building Browser doesn't even show the Master Woodsmen's Guild as being possible to obtain!

In addition, I can't recruit Burgher Pikemen anymore with the HRE. Is this purposeful?

With regards to the Order of Montesa, why is it that only Aragon can use their chapter houses? They're a Christian order split from the Templars, surely they would serve any Catholic ruler.

My final question is about Mailed Knights/Miles. Naturally as they are Early Age units, they can't be retrained after 1200. However, I've noticed that in certain cases, it will let me retrain them anyway. What's up with that? I think I was allowed to retrain a unit of Miles right at the change of era to 1300, though it might have been at another event, maybe one of the improved armor ones (which was awesome since it had 2 gold chevrons), but never again.

Can anyone offer me insight into these mysterious workings of the SS recruitment engine? Thanks!

**Paragon** · April 21, 2012, 09:07 AM

pressdat gives info about SS 6.1., a version like a bazillion years before 6.4

Also teutonic chaper houses, guilds, etc., are buildingS you don't actually choose to build, but buildings that, at the beginning of each turn, the game can go full "Sire, can we build this thingy in Nowhereland, 4000 miles away from actual frontiers with our enemies! Y/N?"

**SonofaBooyah** · April 21, 2012, 11:37 AM

The description explains a bit about the Knights of Montesa, they were only used by the Crown of Aragon, and therefore only used by them on the game. The portuguese had the same kind of Order, called the Knights of Christ, that came directly from the abolished Templars, but these were only used by Portugal (I don't know if there on SS though).
About the Mailed Knights retraining, are you sure there regaining there full strength in numbers, or just upgrading there armour, or gaining experince through Jousting lists and stuff. There are a few reasons why units retrain.

**Cheezy the Wiz** · April 21, 2012, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Paragon

pressdat gives info about SS 6.1., a version like a bazillion years before 6.4

Also teutonic chaper houses, guilds, etc., are buildingS you don't actually choose to build, but buildings that, at the beginning of each turn, the game can go full "Sire, can we build this thingy in Nowhereland, 4000 miles away from actual frontiers with our enemies! Y/N?"

Actually in 6.4, you aren't prompted any more, they're simply a building that becomes available once your city/castle in a certain location becomes a certain size. For example, only Hospitaller Chapter Houses can be built on Rhodes, no matter which Catholic faction controls it, same goes for Templars in Toulouse, or either order in the Holy Land.

It would be nice to have an updated information source for SS units and recruitment stuff.

Originally Posted by bradavies

The description explains a bit about the Knights of Montesa, they were only used by the Crown of Aragon, and therefore only used by them on the game. The portuguese had the same kind of Order, called the Knights of Christ, that came directly from the abolished Templars, but these were only used by Portugal (I don't know if there on SS though).

About the Mailed Knights retraining, are you sure there regaining there full strength in numbers, or just upgrading there armour, or gaining experince through Jousting lists and stuff. There are a few reasons why units retrain.

Yes, the unit size was fully restored.

**The Mouth** · April 21, 2012, 04:51 PM

I know for a fact that the woodsmen guild IS a prompt since that's how I got my Sherwood archers.

**Cheezy the Wiz** · April 21, 2012, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by The Mouth

I know for a fact that the woodsmen guild IS a prompt since that's how I got my Sherwood archers.

Sorry, I meant specifically the Chapter Houses.

As for the Woodmens' Guild, usually when I view the building browser, it shows all possible guild buildings, even if I can't build them there (and it just grays them out and tells me such), but with the Woodsmen's Guild, even though I have a regular one in Nottingham, the Master guild doesn't even show as being possible to get. Now, this was in a High Era English game, is it only available to get in the Early Era? Because the descriptions for the unit and the guild don't say that.

**k/t** · April 21, 2012, 11:54 PM

"Also, this website (http://www.pressdat.com/mtw2/index.html) about Real Recruitment says, for example, that Albanian Cavalry are recruitable as mercenaries in Greece and the Balkans after 1280...I've never seen them before. It also falsely claims that HRE can build Teutonic Chapter Houses before 1200 and recruit their knights, and also that Master Woodsmens' Guilds yield Sherwood Archers for the English..neither has ever been allowed for me. Indeed, the Building Browser doesn't even show the Master Woodsmen's Guild as being possible to obtain!"

If you had read what it says on the website in huge letters right at the top, you would have seen that the information is for the RR/RC Compilation.

"pressdat gives info about SS 6.1., a version like a bazillion years before 6.4"

Wrong. See above.

**Cheezy the Wiz** · April 23, 2012, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by k/t

"Also, this website (http://www.pressdat.com/mtw2/index.html) about Real Recruitment says, for example, that Albanian Cavalry are recruitable as mercenaries in Greece and the Balkans after 1280...I've never seen them before. It also falsely claims that HRE can build Teutonic Chapter Houses before 1200 and recruit their knights, and also that Master Woodsmens' Guilds yield Sherwood Archers for the English..neither has ever been allowed for me. Indeed, the Building Browser doesn't even show the Master Woodsmen's Guild as being possible to obtain!"

If you had read what it says on the website in huge letters right at the top, you would have seen that the information is for the RR/RC Compilation.

"pressdat gives info about SS 6.1., a version like a bazillion years before 6.4"

Wrong. See above.

A system which SS uses.

All I did was ask a question, which plenty of other people have been able to answer civilly. Don't bother me if all you came to do was be an ass.

**PerXX** · April 23, 2012, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Cheezy the Wiz

A system which SS uses.

All I did was ask a question, which plenty of other people have been able to answer civilly. Don't bother me if all you came to do was be an ass.

SS6.4 still uses an outdated version of the RR/RC system.
The RR/RC system is part of the RR/RC Compilation, but it's not entirely the same thing.
The Pressdat site is based on the RR/RC Compilation, and is quite accurate for that purpose.

A lot of the information given in this thread is not entirely correct either.
For instance the Pressdat website does not give information about SS6.1, but as mentioned the RR/RC Compilation (which, granted, is applied on top of a SS6.1 installation, but also upgrades to SS6.2 as well as their own changes).

As for why some rebel units appear out of their time period (you mentioned hussites), that's unfortunately a limit of the engine. Rebel units aren't recruited like faction units, and as such the same limitations can 't be applied to them. Instead they're simply selected from a list of "Rebel Units". This list is static throughout the game, so the choice is either have them potentially appear earlier than they should be, or not be available at all.

Chapter houses are limited to specific locations in SS6.4.

List of Settlements where chapter houses can be built

I don't use a basic SS6.4 installation, so can't be sure about specific units, but I believe the Sherwood Archers were removed (fantasy unit). The HRE should have Burgher Pikeman eventually, I think.
To be sure, you can check the export_descr_unit.txt file to check if the unit even exists (in case of the Sherwood Archers), or if the HRE have ownership (in case of the Burgher Pikemen).
The Burgher Pikemen entry should look like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Then look in the export_descr_buildings.txt and search for entries with the Burgher Pikemen. There's most likely several entries, for different level of buildings, for buildings in Towns and Castles, and possible for different levels of availability after different events.

An entry might look like this:

recruit_pool "Burgher Pikemen" 1 0.25 2 0 requires factions { teutonic_order, hre, } and event_counter FULL_PLATE_ARMOR 1

This would mean that the BP are available for both the Teutonic Order and HRE after the Full Plate Armor have fired.

Lastly, go to the SS6.3\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign\descr_events.txt and find the Full Plate Armor event, which might look like this:

event historic FULL_PLATE_ARMOR
date 280 300

That means that the Full Plate Armor event will fire somewhere between 280 and 300 years after the beginning date. Note years, not necessarily turns. After this time, you'll be able to build the Burgher Pikemen. Provided your files look like that, of course.

Finally, as for the units you were able to retrain after they had become obsolete, you're right it was because of the armour upgrade. They do no longer have a replenishment pool, so you generally won't be able to retrain them, but if there's a new armour upgrade available for them, you'll be able to retrain them. I'm unsure if that'll replenish their losses, or just upgrade the armour though.

**k/t** · April 23, 2012, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Cheezy the Wiz

A system which SS uses.

All I did was ask a question, which plenty of other people have been able to answer civilly. Don't bother me if all you came to do was be an ass.

How about you don't bother us if you can't read?

**Paragon** · April 23, 2012, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Cheezy the Wiz

A system which SS uses.

All I did was ask a question, which plenty of other people have been able to answer civilly. Don't bother me if all you came to do was be an ass.

Originally Posted by k/t

How about you don't bother us if you can't read?

I find very fascinating that you guys completely miss the point about TW games showing us how horrible war is and you bring it to this thread.

**Ferdiad** · April 23, 2012, 04:12 PM

TW games do nothing of the sort, its a

ing game made to make money not prove a point.

**The Mouth** · April 23, 2012, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Ferdiad

TW games do nothing of the sort, its a ing game made to make money not prove a point.

This... +rep

. Besides you would hardly think war is horrible just by playing this game. Their were much more horrific scenes in Medieval Warfare than a bunch of bodies littering a city or field.

EDIT: It seems I need to spread some rep around first...

**Paragon** · April 23, 2012, 04:18 PM

Seriousy I'm going to start using emoticons so people stop taking me seriously. Not sure how I'll manage to do it but whatever.

Also I sometimes feel really guilty about some quotes appearing before a 4000+ soldiers battle.

**Ferdiad** · April 23, 2012, 04:19 PM

Feeling guilt over a game is also wrong.

**The Mouth** · April 23, 2012, 04:23 PM

Internet sarcasm can be hard to read.

**Paragon** · April 23, 2012, 04:23 PM

And then you find yourself playing full dread every single time.

Internet sarcasm can be hard to read.

More like simple jokes trying to lighten the mood. Anyways most people get my sarcastic comments but these people know me for quite a while. I'll guess I'll try being less confusing until I get to be known here.

Which means forever.