Confederation of Rhine details (flags, uniforms)

Thread: Confederation of Rhine details (flags, uniforms)

  1. JMX said:

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    Hi I wanted to know more about the Confederation of the Rhine, Im new so sorry for my test posts I posted this before it said "seeking moderator approval" and didnt show up but my test posts did.

    I'm looking for details of the Confederation flag, colours, standards and so on, even troop uniforms if possible and was it just a loose coalition and the unifroms of its respective German states?

    Apparntly this is floating around the internet as its flag and even wikipedia had it for a while
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Al...on_1806-13.svg

    but wikipedia has since changed it to this
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederation_of_the_Rhine

    the normal french flag, with french gold eagle standard. This is the change's source:
    http://www.fotw.net/flags/de-rh_hi.html#rhc

    Can annyone confirm this and what about that eagle standard? was that generic french or just used for the Rhine. Thanks
    Last edited by Ishan; April 21, 2012 at 09:45 PM. Reason: thread approved
     
  2. Ishan's Avatar

    Ishan said:

    Default Re: Confederation of Rhine details (flags, uniforms)

    Thread approved and all test posts deleted. You should've contacted a moderator who was online and he would've approved your thread, anyways apologies for the delay.

    You're a new member now so you should read this because unless you don't have 25 posts you will have some initial problems like:
    Why can't I post any visitor messages?
    To post visitor messages, you have to have 25 posts and been registered for at least one week. This was introduced to prevent people creating duplicate accounts and spamming our site with them.
    Why can't I edit my posts?
    Sorry for the inconvenience, members have to have 25 posts and been registered for at least one week in order to edit their posts. This was introduced to prevent spam advertising accounts from editing their posts.
     
  3. JMX said:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishan View Post
    Thread approved and all test posts deleted. You should've contacted a moderator who was online and he would've approved your thread, anyways apologies for the delay.

    You're a new member now so you should read this because unless you don't have 25 posts you will have some initial problems like:
    Thanks for that helpful reply to the issues I was having.

    Wow, Prince, thanks!!! so lets take the vanilla French Campaign, how do you think it would be better improved to reflect the Confederation?
    Last edited by Ishan; April 22, 2012 at 06:49 PM. Reason: Double Post
     
  4. Prince of Essling's Avatar

    Prince of Essling said:

    Default Re: Confederation of Rhine details (flags, uniforms)

    Quote Originally Posted by JMX View Post
    Wow, Prince, thanks!!! so lets take the vanilla French Campaign, how do you think it could be better improved to reflect the Confederation?
    1. The map of the German states would have to be redrawn to reflect the diversity of states (and that is probably not going to happen).
    2. Have a dynamic map where national borders change automatically (again unlikely to happen in this version of NTW).
    3. As neither 1 nor 2 are likely, allow the current territories to recruit troops from the multiple states that existed historically within their borders e.g. in Baden-Wurttemburg you would be allowed to recruit troops from both Baden & Wurttemburg etc.
    4. Also the game needs to give you the option to call for the formation of the Rheinbund.
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  5. Prince of Essling's Avatar

    Prince of Essling said:

    Default Re: Confederation of Rhine details (flags, uniforms)

    To answer this fully would require several books; but here is a brief answer (partly adapted from John H Gill “With Eagles to Glory – Napoleon and his German Allies in the 1809 Campaign”:


    The Confederation of the Rhine (or Rheinbund) came about because of Napoleonic France’s need to create a buffer between itself and its mainland European enemies. It was also aimed at denying military resources to its enemies.

    The first major step towards this occurred in 1805 when Bavaria, Baden & Württemberg signed bilateral agreements to supply troops for the Grande Armee. The comprehensive victory of the Austerlitz campaign opened the way for the greater extension of French hegemony over the minor states of Germany. Work on a union began that winter and culminated in July 1806 with the signature of the “constitutional act” of the Confederation of the Rhine (Rheinbund) by Napoleon and fifteen German rulers (http://www.utc.edu/Faculty/Anthony-S...tionRhine.html). Although the Act had a broad scope, it was in practice a military alliance requiring each member state to provide a contingent of troops in case of war. Contingents varied in size according to the population of the state – see following table for troop contributions:

    Original Members:

    France: 200,000
    Bavaria: 30,000
    Württemberg: 12,000
    Baden: 8,000
    Berg: 7,000
    Hesse-Darmstadt: 4,000
    State of the Prince Primate: 1,680
    Nassau: 1,680
    Hohenzollern-Hechingen: 97
    Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen: 193
    Salm-Salm & Salm-Kyrburg: 323 (between them)
    Isenburg-Birnstein: 350
    Aremberg: 379
    Liechtenstein: 40
    Hohengeroldseck (Leyen): 29

    Joined September 1806:
    Würzburg: 2,000

    Joined December 1806:
    Saxony: 20,000 (Duchy of Warsaw added in 1807)
    Saxe-Weimar: 800
    Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg: 1,100
    Saxe-Meiningen: 300
    Saxe-Hildburghausen: 200
    Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld: 400

    Joined April 1807:
    Anhalt-Bernburg: 240
    Anhalt-Dessau: 350
    Anhalt-Köthen: 210
    Schwarzburg-Sonderhausen: 325
    Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt: 325
    Waldeck: 400
    Lippe-Detmold: 500
    Schaumburg-Lippe: 150
    Reuss: 450
    Westphalia: 25,000

    Joined February 1808:
    Mecklenburg-Strelitz: 400
    Mecklenburg-Schwerin: 1,900

    Joined October 1808:
    Oldenburg: 800

    From the above it can be seen that the bigger states, such as Bavaria and Saxony, had their own armies, while smaller duchies and principalities furnished contingents to make up the composite battalions. Following the establishment of the Confederation of the Rhine, Napoleon organised from the many smaller states seven "Regiments of the Confederation of the Rhine" (Rheinbund Regiments):

    1st Rheinbund (2nd Nassau)
    2nd Rheinbund (1st Nassau)
    3rd Rheinbund (Wurzburg)
    4th Rheinbund (Saxon Duchies)
    5th Rhienbund (Anhalt & Lippe)
    6th Rheinbund (Reuss, Schwarzburg & Waldeck)
    7th Rheinbund (Mecklenburg)

    There has also been some confusion over the numbering of the first 3 regiments. I have followed John H Gill "With Eagles to Glory", who used the numbering system established by Napoleon's correspondence & Saski in his history of the 1809 campaign (Commandant Sauzey “Les Allemands sous les Aigles Françaises” has the 1st Regiment as Wurzburg, and the 2 Nassau regiments as the 2nd & 3rd).

    Aremberg, Salm-Salm, Salm-Kyrburg, Liechtenstein & Hohengeroldseck paid subsidies to Nassau to supply troops to meet their quotas. The contingents from Isenburg-Birstein, Hohenzollern-Hechingen, & Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen were integrated into the 2nd Rheinbund Regiment.

    An 8th Regiment provided by (Frankfurt) was added and some sources suggest a renumbering for 1812.

    For uniform information go to the Useful websites thread http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=384319&page=5 which will give you lots of leads. If you have interest in a particular contingent drop me a PM & I will do my best to assist.
    Last edited by Prince of Essling; April 22, 2012 at 04:57 AM. Reason: formatting
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  6. JMX said:

    Default Re: Confederation of Rhine details (flags, uniforms)

    K just needed to come back to this because while I appreciate the great help in finding out about troops, I'm mainly wondering about flags and battle flags. I can't seem to find any thing concrete on what the Confed.Rhine used, and did they have any shared battle flags?, thanks.
     
  7. Prince of Essling's Avatar

    Prince of Essling said:

    Default Re: Confederation of Rhine details (flags, uniforms)

    Quote Originally Posted by JMX View Post
    K just needed to come back to this because while I appreciate the great help in finding out about troops, I'm mainly wondering about flags and battle flags. I can't seem to find any thing concrete on what the Confed.Rhine used, and did they have any shared battle flags?, thanks.
    Individual contingents/regiments had their own flags. There was no single flag for the troops of the Rheinbund. A good source for the regimental flags is http://www.warflag.com/napflags/html/flags.htm where you can drop down to Baden, Bavaria, Berg, Hesse-Darmstadt, Saxony, Westphalia, Wurttemburg & Smaller German States.
    Last edited by Prince of Essling; May 06, 2012 at 03:20 PM.
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  8. JMX said:

    Default Re: Confederation of Rhine details (flags, uniforms)

    thanks again, lastly what about the main flag, no shared flag then? just the imperial seal of the protectorate?
     
  9. Prince of Essling's Avatar

    Prince of Essling said:

    Default Re: Confederation of Rhine details (flags, uniforms)

    As there was no unified battle flag I wouldn't bother trying to model one for the Rheinbund....
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