Processors, motherboards, and RAM speed

[Quinn Inuit]

I'd like to build a computer for the first time, and I'm trying to figure out which components go together. If I got 2133 RAM, would I need to worry about motherboard compatibility or the mobo+processor compatibility?

Also, why do some mobos list their compatibility with some types of RAM as overclock only? Is overclocking so standard now that it's safe to get a motherboard that won't work with my RAM unless I overclock it? I've always had the mindset that overclocking = soldering or otherwise messing with the CPU, but apparently it's a bit easier now. I still remember when it was a big deal that you could overclock a new AMD chip just by using a mechanical pencil to leave a bit of lead to link two circuits.

[snuggans]

it lists 2133mhz RAM as OC because there isn't a processor out there that will run it natively at that speed.

i.g sandy bridge CPUs officially support 1066 & 1333mhz RAM but the motherboard's BIOS can overclock it

[Quinn Inuit]

Ah, I see. How does one figure out what speeds the various processors support? I checked the details view in Newegg and didn't see anything that seemed relevant.

Also, is it hard or dangerous to OC the processor to handle a higher RAM speed?

[snuggans]

go by what the motherboard specifications say.

with some processors you can alter the FSB (front side bus) to match RAM speeds, but for example with Sandy Bridge you can't alter the FSB much, only the multiplier.

it's not hard to overclock the CPU, it's done through bios but an aftermarket cooler is recommended if you're going to overclock, to handle the heat and prevent permanent damage. the stock heatsink/fan that comes with it is just not enough. you will also need to test the stability of the overclock with programs such as prime95. if it can go for hours without bluescreening then the overclock is stable. there are many great guides out there.

you also need to pay attention to the voltage the memory is rated at. for example, 1.5v is important if you're using a sandy bridge processor. i would not recommend 2133mhz ram as the price/performance ratio is just not good enough.

[Quinn Inuit]

Thanks for the tip about 2133 memory. I'll stick with 1866 or 1600, then.

I'm sorry, I'm afraid I don't understand anything about the significance of the memory voltage. Why is that important relative to the processor?

I'm probably going to do an AMD build, so I think I'll be able to mess with the FSB. Would that be all I would need to do to take advantage of the faster RAM speed?

[snuggans]

I'm sorry, I'm afraid I don't understand anything about the significance of the memory voltage. Why is that important relative to the processor?

if the voltage is not in compliance with the CPU's standards you run a higher chance of doing permanent damage to the memory controller.

[Quinn Inuit]

I see. Where do I find the voltage information? I checked a few product pages at Newegg and didn't see any voltage numbers at all.

[snuggans]

i suggest first deciding which processor you want to purchase, then googling its specifications for memory voltage.
newegg doesn't really tell you everything.

the two most common/popular voltages are 1.5v and 1.65v

for DDR3 the standard is 1.5v so you should be safe with that with pretty much any processor.
however it's typical for manufacturers to increase that voltage to achieve higher speeds.

[Quinn Inuit]

That's good to know, thanks.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

give me a price your willing to spend on CPU + RAM + MOBO and ill work from their just those 3 parts if you plan to overclock factor in a CPU cooler but

1,5v DDR3 is fine

1866mhz is the sweet spot for Sandybridge and AMD Bulldozer, AMD supports 1866 out the gate, sandybridge requires turning on XMP profiles which will set the ram to proper timings and thats it your done,

again give me a price limit for those 3-4 components and ill piece it together, just need to know where you plan to order from? are you in the UK ? Somewhere in Europe? USA? Canada? etc location and prefered e-tailer

[Quinn Inuit]

I appreciate the offer, but I'd been planning on holding off till the fall. My current rig is holding together ok (though it's 6 years old), and I figured I'd scout for some good deals around Labor Day or Black Friday after the summer's crop of new CPUs is released. I've never built a computer before, but I'd like to learn how.

For the record, though, I'd like to do an AMD build (personal quirk). I have a budget of $1100, but that has to include a monitor. Fortunately, my 5.1 speaker system from the current rig is holding up nicely, so that's one thing I don't have to worry about. I could probably salvage the DVD-R drive, too, but that's old enough that I'd like to just replace it.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

well i can tell you now for the price AMD is worthless,

$240-260 FX 8150 8 Core (truthfully its a quadcore with 8 threads total like the 2600k) tends to get beaten by the cheaper 2500k, which costs less and uses less power when overclocking the FX uses double the power at the same OC speeds,

with Ivy Bridge coming out (doesnt overclock as well runs hotter but uses less power then sandybridge) is another 5-15% faster then Sandybridge

as it stands Sandybidge is roughly 10-20% faster then AMD FX series, Ivy Bridge will add another 5-15% for 15-35% faster depending on the test / games.

Trinity / Piledriver will be better for AMD but IPC aka single core performance is still pretty damn terrible most games use 2 cores meaning Intel holds the advantage, in most situations. So I cant really recommend AMD, not when in gaming a $125 I3 2100 can still go toe to toe with a $260 FX 8150.

[Bolkonsky]

$240-260 FX 8150 8 Core (truthfully its a quadcore with 8 threads total like the 2600k) tends to get beaten by the cheaper 2500k, which costs less and uses less power when overclocking the FX uses double the power at the same OC speeds,

Well, that's kind of correct.

AMD 8 core is actually 8 integer cores, and 4 floating point cores. Since traditionally fp is used far less than integers, it should function like an 8 core most of the time. However, since games primarily use far more floating point data than normal applications...when it comes to intensive gaming, it's a quad core, as you always go by the lowest common denominator. AMD actually calls them Modules, iirc, and a module consists of two Integer cores and 1 Floating Point core, and they count each Module as 2 cores.

Tbh, the only FX chip that's worth anything is the 4100 since you're hard pressed to find another chip with that many cores for that price. I saw a pretty big performance increase between an i3 2300 (I think) to the 4100, but even then it's still smashed by other, more expensive, Intel chips. It'll do the job, but only if that's the absolute maximum you can afford.

We'll see what Windows 8 brings though, iirc FX is better suited to the new architecture than Intel.

[Quinn Inuit]

What about a high-end Phenom? Those benchmark about as well as an i3-2100 for roughly the same price.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

still worthless, the memory bandwidth on Phenom IIs hold them back with higher end GPUs, they are also a dead end platform with no real upgrade path aka no future, what you see is what you get and their performance peaked in 2009 aka 3 years ago

Phenom II x6 1100T is discontinued not even available in the usual etailers i shop at and those that have it want $200

$200 = 2500k

stock vs stock and oc vs oc AMD has nothing competitive,
Phenom II x6 1100T vs 2500k
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/203?vs=288
FX 8150 vs 2500k
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/434?vs=288

all tests are with a 5870 aka same performance as a 6870 give or take a few frames

AMD just doesnt compete with Intel anymore, they have other products that kick ass tho

the APUs are best bang for buck when it comes to entry lvl machines, aka Integrated GPU that can actually play games lol and do HD content properly but for the most part, AMDs GPUs are good CPUs passable, if your spending $1000+ on a rig buy parts that give you the best performance for the $ you spend, doing anything else just doesnt make sense,

with AMD and NVIDIA GPU wise you always have an alternative you can prefer thats the same price,

with AMD and Intel not so much.

this review http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...Scaling/1.html
show old school Nehalem aka 2008 Core i7 920 vs Bulldozer FX 8150 vs Sandybridge 2500k

i7 920 = 4 cores 8 threads
FX 8150 = 8 cores (in reality its just AMDs version of 4 cores 8 threads)
i5 2500k = 4 cores 4 threads

performance summary aka the performance difference averaged across every game tested





the i7 920 released in 2008
the Bulldozer FX 8150 released in 2011 = $250
the Sandy Bridge i5 2500k released in 2011 = $210-220

AMD in terms of gaming and general daily performance is 3 years behind Intel at this point,

In some task AMD IS FANTASTIC, problem is these tasks are not things average users do.

[Quinn Inuit]

Hmmm...I see your point. If I can get an i5 2500k for less than a Bulldozer, there's really no contest. And while the Phenom offers (IMO) good power for the price, I think you make a strong argument that I would be boxing myself into a corner due to the fact that it's an evolutionary dead end at this point.

At this point, I'm very curious about Piledriver and Ivy Bridge. Even if those two end up out of reach, I'm hoping there will be price cuts on existing processors when the new ones come out.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I have a relatively new hard drive, so I'm just going to wipe that and use it in the new machine. It's a 500gb WD Cav. Green, and I'm hoping to get three more years out of it before trading up to a newer model.

[irishron]

Keep in mind Bulldozer and Shogun2/RotS/FotS are not friends. There is a sticky in the Shogun2 Tech forum on the subject.

[Bolkonsky]

Keep in mind Bulldozer and Shogun2/RotS/FotS are not friends. There is a sticky in the Shogun2 Tech forum on the subject.

It was a BIOS issue. Download the latest BIOS and it works fine.

[irishron]

AMD admitted the chip was made wrong. This is why the BIOS fix. Some of these BIOS fixes have turned into more than a royal pain in the ass. MSI being one of the worst and Gigabyte right behind them

[Bolkonsky]

I had no problem with Gigabyte. I downloaded the beta BIOS from their site with no hassle, flashed it, and everything runs great. Maybe I got lucky or something.