LEGIONS

[Desley]

Hi guys,

Could you explain to me if I'm doing it right? creating these legions. How are they supposed to look (unit setup). Only in Alexandria are Cavalry and Archers available, the building which gives those costs too much to build in Rome etc as well. Can I use Cretan archers for example?

And are those units supposed to be mixed together or not? I do not have much knowledge concerning the legions .

Help me out?

[menawati]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=389536

Cretan archers are good yeh.

[TheDarkKnight]

More auxilia. Far too many legionary units, me thinks.

[Sertorio]

If you go historical and consider each unit as cohort you wont go above 10/11 cohorts. The first cohort was double size.The rest would be cavalry, auxilia, siege weapons, localy levied/hired troops...
I dont think that even Rome would despize the opurtunity of hiring Cretan archers or have them as allies.

[rory o'kane]

What to you mean "10/11"? There were 10 cohorts in a legion. The First Cohort wasn't actually double sized (it was 800 men to a regular cohort's 480). Our first cohorts are larger to reflect this. A legion should consist of a General, a First Cohort, and then 9 regular cohorts. The rest of the stack is up to you - try not to go too heavy on the archers or cavalry, though - balance is best. However, if you're besieging a city, feel free to go a little more archer- and/or artillery-heavy.
The general idea with the house rules is that IDEALLY, you should have only one First Cohort and 9 "normal" Cohorts of each named and numbered legion on the entire map (allowances are made for reinforcements when you're far from a given legion's area of recruitment, but you should aim to keep them as close to this number as possible). That said, the legion does not HAVE to stay together. Sometimes, during the Empire, when the legions' positions became more permanent, it became impossible to move entire legions from one end of the Empire to the other for a campaign without leaving a section of the frontier badly defended, so legions instead sent detachments of a few cohorts for a campaign. These were known as Vexillations, after the vexillum, the square Roman banner (that you see in each of our named and numbered legionary cohorts) which they marched behind, so it is completely legitimate to send a few Cohorts of a given legion from its station in Britain to help you kill the Dacians, as long as you don't recruit another bunch of cohorts to replace them in Britain (unless you send them as reinforcements) - i.e. you can't send 5 cohorts from Britain and then build that legion back up to 10 cohorts while the 5 cohorts you sent are still in Dacia, unless you disband them or they are wiped out - if it's guarding Hadrian's Wall from the Caledonians, it'll have to do so at half strength (or you could simply add a few more auxiliary units to cover for them ).

[Sertorio]

What to you mean "10/11"? There were 10 cohorts in a legion. The First Cohort wasn't actually double sized (it was 800 men to a regular cohort's 480). Our first cohorts are larger to reflect this... .

That was the motive i pointed 10/11 to reflect the larger size of the first, wich i didnt know it had a larger size ingame, my bad.

[RafoutRoud]

Lacking in cavalry tbh...and cavalry still wins this game , lol.

Also, I think the system is slightly flawed...even with engine constraints. If you go with the standard legion/one first/archers/cav with one legatus, something that is encouraged - you open yourself up to the problem - you take an egyptian legion and place and Britain, which was what the romans did - they removed the threat of local loyalty from their armies.
Sadly, you can't retrain any of these legions anywhere but in egypt...probably due to engine constraints. What I'm getting at , is that this whole building legions and sending them somewhere is just one colossal waste of time. Local troops and mercenaries can win any battle against any nation.

[ricandy144]

Hi guys,
Can I use Cretan archers for example?

And are those units supposed to be mixed together or not? I do not have much knowledge concerning the legions .

If not strictly apply the history-as-is composition, your legion composition is too good for battling and not as flexible as it should be to balance your force within the whole nation (it's the cost that you point out). Always winning the battle with full stack of just legion or pratorian will give us boredom sooner than ever, . So, let use 10 cohorts maximum for legion and/or polybian unit. Then try some merchanery unit in your line to enjoy the variety of troops' ability.

[Desley]

Thanks alot guys! 10 cohorts it is!

Also can these legions be numbered ingame? and can I recruit more then one legion from 1 settlement (the same cohort unit types?) I want it to be historical and not just fantasy (having a bunch of the same ones walking around ).

edit: and another question, if after many battles 4/10 of the cohorts are defeated and I have only six left, can I sent 4 new cohorts to reinforce this legion? How did that work? Did the legion go back to the city for retraining?

[ur-Lord Tedric]

I have to ask - you obviously have Italy squared away...

But how have you managed to capture Alexandria and upgrade it enough to a Curia Hostilia (although I assume you're well on in the campaign), without everything in between - I'm just curious?

On organising the legion - there are several comments and threads. You may wish to look here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=496542

Or there's also a bit on how I've done it for my test campaigns here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=530912

3rd Post...and I play pretty historically-based.

[Desley]

I have to ask - you obviously have Italy squared away...

But how have you managed to capture Alexandria and upgrade it enough to a Curia Hostilia (although I assume you're well on in the campaign), without everything in between - I'm just curious?

I play 4 turns a year, for the past 50 turns or something I have focussed all my money on Alexandria because I want to conquer Syria. I did not have unlimited money so most of the time I could not build in all settlements, Alexandria had priority then Rome. Most of my money went to holding off Carthage and barbarians from the north (cimbri invasion, 13 full stacks )

So yea its just a matter of time and money.

[Desley]

if after many battles 4/10 of the cohorts are defeated and I have only six left, can I sent 4 new cohorts to reinforce this legion? How did that work? Did the legion go back to the city for retraining?

Can someone please answer this question.

[General Brittanicus]

Can someone please answer this question.

I think it would be fine to send new cohorts to your legion. I would have thought that in real life if a legion became depleted whilst on campaign they would have just recieved a steady stream of replacements if possible or the remanants of the legion would just be spread out amongst other forces if replacements couldn't be found. Rory has a greater knowledge of the area than I though, so it would be best to see what he says about the matter.

[Sertorio]

I think it would be fine to send new cohorts to your legion. I would have thought that in real life if a legion became depleted whilst on campaign they would have just recieved a steady stream of replacements if possible or the remanants of the legion would just be spread out amongst other forces if replacements couldn't be found. Rory has a greater knowledge of the area than I though, so it would be best to see what he says about the matter.

The replacements would be probably at centuria level with reinforcements being assigned to depleted centuria, wich you cant do in RTW so i think its fine taking new cohorts to your legion camping ground.It simulates the logistics that Roman arms were able.

[rory o'kane]

That usually wasn't the motive for moving the legions, so much as the auxiliaries. The legionnaires were Roman citizens, often the offspring or relatives of soldiers who had conquered the provinces in the first place and had been retired there, and so were brought up with a greater feeling of kinship with their fellow Roman citizens than the provincials. The legions were simply moved to where they were needed, and usually stationed there for quite a while - often taking up local citizen recruits. The auxilia on the other hand, were absolutely moved around to avoid divided loyalties, after Rome learned some painful lessons during the Dalmatian and Batavian revolts.

[RafoutRoud]

That usually wasn't the motive for moving the legions, so much as the auxiliaries. The legionnaires were Roman citizens, often the offspring or relatives of soldiers who had conquered the provinces in the first place and had been retired there, and so were brought up with a greater feeling of kinship with their fellow Roman citizens than the provincials. The legions were simply moved to where they were needed, and usually stationed there for quite a while - often taking up local citizen recruits. The auxilia on the other hand, were absolutely moved around to avoid divided loyalties, after Rome learned some painful lessons during the Dalmatian and Batavian revolts.

A legion and auxiliaries go hand in hand son.

[Ferdiad]

1 Gen
4 Cav
4 Archers
1 FST
10 Legionaries.

[Ferdiad]

Thats why you have 2 stacks.

[RafoutRoud]

Thats why you have 2 stacks.

:l

[Ferdiad]

:l

You can just plop the any spare ones at your borders to act as garrisons.