Huge "Jewish Faction" fan base... why?

[debux]

I'm just amazed at seeing how many people pushing for a jewish faction in every mod that is in development... what's so amazing about them? IIRC, they didn't play any fundamental role almost in the whole period covered in mods that span from the rise of classical greece to.... when did they ever play a fundamental role again?

I mean, sure, they are important as a religious group, made up for a great resistance against the romans plus various revolts against the Diadochi (I can't remember them causing trouble to the persians though, might be because of the tolerance they had)... but did they do enough, or even consider doing enough as to include them in a major mod?

I hope there are no angry fundamentalists out here to spam up with religious propaganda, I'm just asking for the reasons why they are so loved in our community.

[The Despondent Mind]

The jews rule the world , they want to rule the tw games also .

[detat88]

Why is a very good question. Simply put, Solomon was the last ruler of all the Israelites that made it to Canaan. After his death sometime in the late 10th century BC, the Israelites split into Judah in the south, which contained the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, and Israel in the north which contained all of the other tribes. Affter this point, both kingdoms become mere regional players sandwiched in between the egyptians to the south and the assyrians, and later babylonians, to the north. After the fall of Jerusalem to Nebuchanezzar II in 587 BC, the next jewish state in Canaan would be that of the hasmoneans in, I believe, 165 BC. After this kingdom was absorbed by Rome, there wouldn't be another jewish state in Canaan until the modern state of Israel, I think. That said, there were at least two other jewish states that I can think of. First was the arabic kingdom of Himyar under the reign of Dhu Nuwas before it was destroyed by Axum (510-525 AD). The other one was the far more impressive empire of the Khazars. The Khazars, or at least the nobility of the Khazars, converted to Judaism sometime in the mid 8th century AD and would continue to exist until their destruction by a Rus by the name of Svyatoslav in the mid tenth century AD. Really, after reviewing the above history, one could really only make a case for a Canaan based jewish faction sometime during the reign of kings David or Solomon as the other jewish states in the area were either not impressive in the least or had uzis. Note that all of this information is from Suan Wise Bauer's "History of the Ancient World" and her "History of the Medieval World".

[ccgr1121]

After this point, both kingdoms become mere regional players sandwiched in between the egyptians to the south and the assyrians, and later babylonians, to the north.

Not quite. The Kingdom of Israel (The northern one) was actually very well off and influential, for its size. It's capital of Samaria was the fifth or sixth biggest at the time in the Ancient Near East, and it was right on top of the trade routes. Of course, it was demolished (I mean, utterly obliterated) by the Assyrians in 750ish BC, as described in the books of Hosea and Amos.

The Kingdom of Judah (The Southern One) was indeed tiny and insignificant, yet managed to survuve the Assyrians due to God's curse plague, depending whether you read the Bible or the Assyrian accounts.

After the fall of Jerusalem to Nebuchanezzar II in 587 BC, the next jewish state in Canaan would be that of the hasmoneans in, I believe, 165 BC

Those dates are correct, but do you not include the post-exillic Jewish state, which existed from the 530s to 333BC, when Alexander came?

[Savoyard]

Obviously all the lobbying money is flowing into certain avenues and into certain members' coffers is causing this.

[Ferdiad]

I have never heard of any Jews wanting to get their Kingdom in. How would it even fit in the time period what with the Muslims and the Crusaders.

[Vercingetorix The Great]

They rebelled against the romans

[mongrel]

I have never heard of any Jews wanting to get their Kingdom in. How would it even fit in the time period what with the Muslims and the Crusaders.

Mohammed was not born then. Even Jesus would be a teenager at the very end of the game, if we take AD at face value.

The Maccabees and the Hasmonean Kingdom would make a decent emergent faction. Try did beat the Seleucids after all.

[Ferdiad]

Mohammed was not born then. Even Jesus would be a teenager at the very end of the game, if we take AD at face value.

The Maccabees and the Hasmonean Kingdom would make a decent emergent faction. Try did beat the Seleucids after all.

I was thinking of Medievel 2 and the Crusades by accident

[debux]

My point is that in almost every new mod thread you see people posting that a jewish faction should be included (this comes from looking at the RTW section)... I mean, they might have had victories against the Selucids, withstood a great siege from the Romans, but do you think it's enough to include them as a faction? I mean, compare their chances of expansion both historically and in-game, there are tribes that would be a lot more interesting, such as spanish, celtic or even a steppe tribe Why do you guys think there are so many people eager to see a "jewish kingdom" faction in a mod?

[Ferdiad]

My point is that in almost every new mod thread you see people posting that a jewish faction should be included (this comes from looking at the RTW section)... I mean, they might have had victories against the Selucids, withstood a great siege from the Romans, but do you think it's enough to include them as a faction? I mean, compare their chances of expansion both historically and in-game, there are tribes that would be a lot more interesting, such as spanish, celtic or even a steppe tribe Why do you guys think there are so many people eager to see a "jewish kingdom" faction in a mod?

Show me these threads, In all my years here I have yet to see one.

[debux]

Show me these threads, In all my years here I have yet to see one.

Sheesh, do you really need that?

But really, it's just a thing of looking at the comment of the mods at the mod thread section... I'm pretty sure I got to see like requests for a jewish faction like in 4 different mods in one day. I sure do find funny that I seem to be the only one noticing it (I'm pretty sure that even people in the EB forums ask for a jewish kingdom!)

(Besides, I'm too lazy of going through my whole history of threads seen in TWC, and yes, sometimes I'm so bored of studying that I even read all the comments in a thread)

[Ferdiad]

Sheesh, do you really need that?

But really, it's just a thing of looking at the comment of the mods at the mod thread section... I'm pretty sure I got to see like requests for a jewish faction like in 4 different mods in one day. I sure do find funny that I seem to be the only one noticing it (I'm pretty sure that even people in the EB forums ask for a jewish kingdom!)

(Besides, I'm too lazy of going through my whole history of threads seen in TWC, and yes, sometimes I'm so bored of studying that I even read all the comments in a thread)

No they don't, I;m a regular to the EB forums and I've never seen a Jew thread.

[Spike]

list of the mods where Jewish factions will appear, in ascendingtimeline:

Assyria TW (Israel and Judah) (900 BC) http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=751
- ancient Jewish armies (warbands, early organized infantries and light stuffs)
Near East TW (Judah) (615 BC) http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1822
- late Jewish armies (organized infantries, chariots, and formations of archers supported by spearmen)
Novus Ordo Mundi (Hashmoneans) (80 BC) http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1849
- hellenistic Jewish armies (thureophoroi, thorakitai, phalanxes, and cavalry)

Horsemen of the Steppes has Khazars, but did it really count as Jewish faction?

yes yes, no one of them has official release yet

just watch em

[Punic Hoplite]

Show me these threads, In all my years here I have yet to see one.

I'm going to have to second this. The only time I've seen a Jewish faction proposed would be in an Judea Total War mod I saw, and it's last post was 2008.

[issler]

My point is that in almost every new mod thread you see people posting that a jewish faction should be included (this comes from looking at the RTW section)... I mean, they might have had victories against the Selucids, withstood a great siege from the Romans, but do you think it's enough to include them as a faction? I mean, compare their chances of expansion both historically and in-game, there are tribes that would be a lot more interesting, such as spanish, celtic or even a steppe tribe Why do you guys think there are so many people eager to see a "jewish kingdom" faction in a mod?

nah you're mistaken
it's just that no mod has a jewish faction
and that's not historically accurate

[Spike]

nah you're mistaken
it's just that no mod has a jewish faction
and that's not historically accurate

yep, must admit no released mod has a "true" jewish faction (Khazars may not count on this)

but I'm working in one that was historically accurate at 615 BC... Assyria TW is accurate at 900 BC, and Novus Ordo Mundi is accurate at 70 BC

[lolIsuck]

There's a lot of Jews on TWC, therefore a lot of people who want a Jewish faction in so they can keep imagining Israel is one of the oldest countries in the world that has always existed...

[Overlooked Pillow]

I also think starting out as a small faction where basically all other provinces will have a very small jewish population would be fun. Since you would get to use lots of religious agents which I enjoy. Especially if spreading your religion feels like it did as the Ikko Ikki in Shogun 2, inciting rebellions and everything.

[aminadav85]

as jew i'd really like to see a mod or two with a jewish state. however, in a big mods, i don't think they should have a jewish faction because the the jews didn't leave their trademark on the ancient military history......if a" Modern: Total war" (i've just made it up ) would be release then the israeli state shuold be there