Empire army composition

[TWmadman]

Hey

what is the best use of empire swordmen/hallebardiers/spearmen/two handed swordmen?
in what situation each one is more effective?

same question for range, what is the best use of empire archers/crossbowmen/handgunners?

i m trying to make a balanced compo

thx for your advices

[Maha Moggalana]

Swordmen vs spearman , light infantry
Halberdiers => Hold the line
Spearmen vs cavalry .
Greatsword => shock troop or vs tough guy

Archers => defend settlement (they have free upkeep)
Crossbow => core missile unit .
Handgunner => use pistolier instead . I only use handgunner when there is no other choice .

[Ichon]

Halberdiers right now are fairly devastating in every situation. They can advance or hold the line quite well and only have problems taking a charge directly from the side.

Swordsmen are effective on walls and excellent flankers and can hold the line against anything short of heavy infantry like Chaos Warriors or taking a charge from Beastgors but can hold for a good amount of time against anything else.

Spearmen are excellent holding the line against lower tier infantry but can have trouble against any other units if moving on offense. Spearmen can hold sometimes against cavalry but don't count on it as they need the help of terrain or a bad charge.

Greatswords, seem to do ok on walls but be rather crappy in most other situations other than vs Goblins as I've had them defeated even by Ungors.

Archers excellent in most situations where not receiving a direct charge. Surprisingly effective in melee and devastating from a height.

Crossbow effective over time but only stand out in battles which last a long time. Can be effective in sieges but more difficult to use than archers and seem not that much more effective against armored though there is a noticeable effect.

Handgunners seem the most effective against armor of the missile weapons but require strong infantry support and take a bit of time to be effective but not as much as crossbowmen at low ranges where handgunners do very well while faring poorly at longer ranges compared to archers and crossbows. Also not quite as effective in melee as the other missile troops.

[GreatSword]

Hey

what is the best use of empire swordmen/hallebardiers/spearmen/two handed swordmen?
in what situation each one is more effective?

same question for range, what is the best use of empire archers/crossbowmen/handgunners?

i m trying to make a balanced compo

thx for your advices

1. Halberds- on the defensive I like to spread them out in the center of the battlefield, 3 ranks deep, spearwall, guardmode. They hold a large front really well, if I do have greatswords, I spread them out behind these, very close to the back rank, where they can catch anyone who breaks through. This is usually the only place I have greatswords.

2. Spearmen- shieldwall, guardmode, almost always. Use them to attack or defend, though I dont spread them out as much as halberds, keeping them 4+ ranks deep. Unless defending a gate in a siege in which I will take 3 or 4 units and stack them 3 ranks deep as close to the gate as possible.

3. Swordsmen- upgraded fully these arnt that bad. I use them on walls in sieges, or to flank the enemy in the open field, with shieldwall and guardmode they can streetfight really well too.

4. Archers, Crossbowmen, Handgunners- Not too shabby in siege warfare, I dont use them at all in the open field. Mainly garrison forces.

5. Knights- I Get these as often as I can, get them some experience, retrain them, upgrade their weapons with a weaponsmith. Middenland has the most superior knights imo, with the panthers being faster than the others, and the white wolves being able to mow down armored targets (as they should!)

6. Artillery- After fighting several battles with the various war machines I have come to one conclusion... Hellstorm Rocket Battery. This is the only artillery I take for field warfare. For siege warfare, cannons and mortars.

Hope this helps!

[Marcus Tullius Cicero]

I typically go light on cavalry and generals (2 Knightly Orders and 1 Pistolier max.) as they do not need greater numbers to flank and hold off other cavalry bar e.g. Bloodknights and Chosen Chaos knights, instead I tie them up with cav and then flank with Greatswords.

I'm also light on artillery and missile units, 1 great cannon and either a Bright Wizard or a Helblaster if I am able, then 3 Handgunners or appropriate mercenaries.

My main core is thus a few units of spearmen on the flanks; in shieldwall and guard mode they are surprisingly durable vs. cavalry charges for how cheap they are. A unit or two of Greatswords or Ogres or other more elite Heavy Infantry like Warrior Priests for flanking the main battle line. Then a mix of Halberds and Swordsmen for the remainder in a row of 1 Halberdier then a Swordsman then a Halberdier etc. purely for easy of movement of handgunners back and forth.

Once battle is engaged I withdraw my cannon crew, draw their cavalry as best I can off to the sides to isolate them and bring them down quickly with Great Weapon units, then I hunt archers and war machines with my pistoliers and Knightly Orders before rear charging the main battle line (I seem to lose most of my casualties to mass archer fire to enemies such as Dark Elves, Orcs etc.). My handgunners pull off to the sides, but I have to watch for the enemy cavalry disengaging from my own (before my Heavy Infantry can bog them down) and then devastating my handgunners. Once at the sides though they can be really menacing! Meanwhile my main battle line can be very flexible, swordsman spread out through the gaps it between enemy units for little flanks, while the halberdiers press through. If my spearmen are free I usually abandon shield wall and guard mode and have them rear charge so they can inflict some semblance of damage.

I'd like to know what people's thoughts are on the artillery in Call of Warhammer; the animations and effects just seem unfluffy or hit and miss. For example I forgo using explosive ammo because it isn't fluffy (just like Dwarves having mortars). I was curious to hear other people's thoughts as I know Surreal Beliefs used multiple mortars per battle and really let them go to town before engaging. I prefer to be more aggressive, admittedly which tends towards higher losses, but I find it more enjoyable and so on.

[TWmadman]

thank you for good advices mates

[Ichon]

I'd like to know what people's thoughts are on the artillery in Call of Warhammer; the animations and effects just seem unfluffy or hit and miss. For example I forgo using explosive ammo because it isn't fluffy (just like Dwarves having mortars). I was curious to hear other people's thoughts as I know Surreal Beliefs used multiple mortars per battle and really let them go to town before engaging. I prefer to be more aggressive, admittedly which tends towards higher losses, but I find it more enjoyable and so on.

Cannon can be very effective in siege defense and sometimes in siege assaults though it depends what you are facing. In field battles I've had mixed results. Typically due to the difficulty retraining compared to other units and how much they slow my field armies along with such inconsistent results its difficult to base tactics on them I don't regularly use them. On average they do better than most units other than knights and archers(about 75 kills per battle where some battles they get 20 and some battles 150 as it only takes a couple direct hits to score alot of kills).

Mortars are overall my favorite Empire artillery. Any enemy which has decent infantry missile units have no counter to mortars. Mortars also work excellent vs enemies with large infantry groups as they are much more likely to hit. Really the only faction mortars aren't that great against is Chaos which is generally smaller and faster moving units.

Hellstorm rockets of course are deadly, a bit too much if you ask me, but usually not many are available so I will take them in my army but certainly not as a regular component.

[Shi Huangdi]

I like to have a strong center of halberdiers, one unit of heavy non-spearwall infantry for each flank, two artillery units, two handgunners, two or three crossbowmen, at least one pistolier, and at least two knightly units, possibly counting the general.

I place my halberdiers in a line at the center, with heavy infantry on each flank, and the crossbows and artillery behind. I place my handgunners in front, 2 deep, to fire at the approaching enemy. When the enemy is close, I have my melee infantry line advance in front of the handgunners to receive the attack. My pistoliers constantly harass the enemy's most powerful units, and my knights break up the enemy starting at one of the flanks, and I roll up the line from there. When the battle really gets going, sometimes I move my handgunners out to the flanks to fire at the enemy for the sides and behind.

I do not use the unrealistic hit-and-run heavy cavalry tactic.

[Reiksfart]

More exact details about how people play Empire please. I'm going to use some peoples tactics to see how they fare in my submod.

[GreatSword]

More exact details about how people play Empire please. I'm going to use some peoples tactics to see how they fare in my submod.

One thing that bothers me is the special units. If you agree with me, please make the special units in your mod truly special in some way. I really think they should not be carbon copies of state troops, which is pointless to have. Like for example, make "grundels defenders" 10 models larger, or an additional +2 vs cavalry, or something minor, but gives the player a reason to recruit them. As of now... I dont even get them because they usually cannot recieve as many armor upgrades as state troops. They look different and that is really cool, but have no use. (Averland heavy halberdiers are a particular pet peeve of mine, they have a slightly higher armor, but no shield , so they are the same... annoying as hell!)

As for general tactics of the empire, I would say the basic strategy I use is always the same. Use what artillery you have until the melee clash, with cheap infantry holding the center, while you overwhelm one side with cavalry.

Against "horde" armies like orcs and beastmen, I even bend my line on the opposite side of my calvary, so the infantry will be harder to flank.

Infantry
I
I Art. cav
I

something like that, (i know thats a poor picture lmao)

[Reiksfart]

One thing that bothers me is the special units. If you agree with me, please make the special units in your mod truly special in some way. I really think they should not be carbon copies of state troops, which is pointless to have. Like for example, make "grundels defenders" 10 models larger, or an additional +2 vs cavalry, or something minor, but gives the player a reason to recruit them. As of now... I dont even get them because they usually cannot recieve as many armor upgrades as state troops.

Those I did make unique in some way, whether it was giving WS4 instead of 3 and/or higher initiative, or if their model looks like it has better armour, then heavy instead of light armour. Some had special rules added too, all with an increased points cost which results in lower number of troops per unit. Don't expect them to be super elite units over their regular state troop counterparts though, but they will be an improvement in various ways.

Everything can be fully upgraded to keep the balancing as level as possible. Even unarmoured units can be upgraded, but those will always need levels 4, 5 and 6 smithy for each upgrade.

Thanks for the replies, I will respond more tomorrow.

[Shi Huangdi]

I almost always play defensively, which is probably not a great idea. My strategy always depends on the line of halberdiers and the knights' heavy punch. Also, I have not mastered the use of artillery that cannot fire over the heads of my soldiers.

Reiksfart, are there any particular details you're looking for that I haven't mentioned?

[GreatSword]

That little picture didnt come out right...

[GreatSword]

[Ichon]

Basically 2 army setups for Empire with

1. Cavalry heavy, handgun/archers, heavy infantry as a fast reaction force and as a specific counter to Chaos and Dark Elves. If I am Nordland I emply heavy crossbowmen as I find them able to not only get off some shots as the enemy closes but they hold up as well as swordsmen in melee and often end with 1:2 kill ratios which means fast xp gain and even more powerful. 2-4 pistoliers, 2-4 heavy cavalry, 3-5 missiles, 1-2 handgun, 10-12 swordsmen/halberdier/whatever empire regional troops are available, 2 BG in case commander is killed there needs to be a 2nd in command for field armies way away from home.

Tactics are to send Pistoliers to both flank of the enemy with heavy cavalry concentrated on 1 side- Pistoliers focus on enemy HC or the commander unless in range of enemy missile in which case the HC charge in to deal with that. If enemy HC charges the Pistoliers they retreat on the weak side and on the heavy side 1 pistolier counter charges if the numbers favor Empire while the HC move to flank and rear of the oncoming enemy HC and the other Pistolier moves to the other flank or draws off a 2nd enemy HC. Usually enemy HC is killed down to 5-10 men in a few seconds and then the HC withdraw to reform and prepare for charge on the line while the Pistoliers run to the other flank and help out the retreating Pistoliers. Meanwhile focus fire of the foot missiles on enemies most dangerous units when in range while the heavy infantry stand in a curved bow shape protecting the archers with 2 companies in reserve that will run out to flank the enemy when it folds around the bow. Tactic is to use reformed HC to kill enemy commander or remaining HC and at least 1 to charge the rear of the enemy army. Usually cavalry takes the heaviest casualties while the infantry suffer light casualties. This allows cavalry reinforcements to arrive quickly and ones sent home for retraining to move fast as well since this type of army is far from home. Laying siege the army usually splits up under the 2 commanders to entice enemy to sally out against an all cavalry army.

2. The mortar/sometimes cannon army is usually having a couple Nuln pikemen to form the center as their pikes reach over and shield any cannon I might have as well as for a little while holding even better than halberdiers(the problem with the Nuln is that when their line is broken they die quick whereas Halberdiers are still deadly). I also like to use Ogres and mercenaries in the slower armies. 2-3 Mortars, 1-2 cannon/hellstorm/wizards, 2-3 Nuln, 3-6 Halberdiers, 2 Ogres, 2-4 spearmen, 2-4 swordsmen, 2-4 specials/mercenaries, 2-4 missiles(usually a couple pistoliers if having enough stables by that point to help chase routed enemy and the other missiles are handguns as they tend to have more armor and enemy focus fire on them and this type of army usually has longer battles so handguns show their strength more), 1 BG as commander who usually stays behind the line keeping morale up until enemy close to routing.

Tactics are to engage at max range with the artillery/wizards while the handguns are in skirmish loose formation out in front of a flat formation except where the cannon is aimed has units of halberdiers in a V shape away from the muzzle of the cannon and other heavy infantry on the back of the halberdiers. The handguns draw enemy charge and retreat as rapidly as possible around the sides of the M where cannon is at the bottom of the V in the middle with Nuln standing even with the muzzle of the cannon pikes outward, mortars focus fire on largest blocks of enemy or any enemy missiles that stop to shoot. The idea is to get the enemy to change into the M where the cannon can have some point blank shots. When it works well I've taken out nearly full companies of Vampires, Chaos Warriors etc with the special ammos. When it doesn't work well it still gives a fight chance for the infantry to win the battle. Ogres are the reserves that counter charge to protect any strong charges hitting the lines and then withdraw to let the Empire infantry work or they flank and charge. Depending on which Empire state it is the specials might flank with the Ogres or hold the corners of the line instead of the swordsmen, etc. The M shape makes the enemy fill in the cracks which turns their flank to the cannons in the middle and to the ogres/swordsmen/special edge of the line flankers on the other side of the M. Halberdiers hold position facing each other with spearmen to their backs.

[nightwatch666]

Spearmen are generally useless against everything, so I never use them. Otherwise infantry is just a meat shield for me. They buy time for the cavalry to flank, or special units to work their skills.

Empire infantry have it tough. If they aren't getting charged by orges, minotaurs, and what not, they are getting hit from behind by an empire rocket battery, or from above by an errant bright wizard shot.

In siege battles they clog the streets and let the mortars ruin enemy units that tend to clog in big tightly packed groups...even if the mortars miss sometimes and hit them too.

[Valiant Champion]

defensively. use shield wall in guard mode

[paradamed]

And dont forget to use gunpowder units (handgunners, pistoliers) against trolls and minotaurs. They are the best way to kill them.

[Lord Baal]

I employ two type of armies as Wisseland, one is for sieges (make them, not defend) and other is more for field battles. My Nuln army is heavy on handgunners and halberdiers, while having some swordmen and pistoliers for assaults and harassing. The core of this army of course is the cannons and mortars, at least one cannon and four mortar teams. Most of the time the mortars annihilate the defenders inside the castle/town and my halberdiers, swordman and pistoliers only mop up the resistanse while the cannon(s) bring down the walls. Sometimes the enemy sally the fort but the halberdiers and handgunners quickly mow down the defenders aided by the cannon(s).

My field army is more traditional and easier to train anywhere, crossbows, halberdiers and swordmen as the backbone with a few knights and greatswords as the core with only one or two a rocket batteries or mortars as backup to give siege capacity or aid in field battles.

(By the way I'm not sure if I used the terms backbone and core correctly, if some one can enlighten me about it I would appreciate it)

[Ichon]

Correctly.