Supply lines poll

[Fanest]

CA has this game series called Total War but is it really "total" without supply lines or some other mechanism which simulates logistic part of war?
Would u like to see supply lines implemented in next Total War?
Implementing this would add new concept of warfare build on securing yours and raiding enemies ones, hit and run tactics, guerrilla warfare etc. etc. meaning also less agents and more specific units.

[Sir_Red]

"Voters: 2. You may not vote on this poll" ??

[-=PHX=-Hades]

"Voters: 2. You may not vote on this poll" ??

You have to have a certain number of posts to vote. I think it's 100 or 150 or something.

I want supply lines as long as they keep it fairly simply on don't want to stare at a bunch numbers trying to figure out if my army will be in supply or not.

[Fanest]

@Sir_Red u need 25 post to vote, u need just one more post

[krisslanza]

Total War has always been more about the macro, then the micro. Its meant to be kind of simple. More complex war games would be things made by Paradox...

[Kinjo]

Yeah I want them for sure! I think implementing them will be tricky or they would be in the game already. If they do add them I hope I can attack them and have a small battle attacking a caravan/wagons depending on the period. Also if you win the fight you should get to loot the supplies. Ever since I saw the S.P.Q.R intro vid there is a small clip of a cavalry unit attacking a supply/trade caravan I wanted this feature. Just setting up small ambushes waiting for the supply wagons would be cool with guys firing from the trees from the woods that run along the road.



If you watch the S.P.Q.R vid you can see a caravan being attacked at 1:10

[Buffalo_Ninja]

I think they have the best solution right now, you can replenish your troops in friendly territory and you can't in enemy territory, provinces with training camps replenish better than others it's not an overly complicated system.
Most Total War players have been through with the franchise for nearly a decade but for the uninitiated the learning curve is incredibly steep. With the automated system they have right now that the player can improve upon with arts and buildings it provides decent way to curtail the player, take ETW for example just two turns and your army is fully replenished - deep in enemy territory, now in STW2 we get a system which allows for gradual replenishment that sort of keeps the player from blitzing the entire map.

[Sir_Red]

Voting for supply lines, Think the idea of "trade route" style supply line that can be cut and cause massive attrition would make it more realistic. Players would have to think about exit strategies and approaches rather than just careering headlong into enemy territory without consequence

[alexanderswift]

Only if properly implemented, which I don't see for the next title. I voted yes though, I want them in but I want them done right. Personally I'd love to see a realism mode as an extra campaign setting, so we could get all the supply lines and chain of command details we want but still leaving it open to everyone else.

[crimson2404]

That would be nice. I hate how certain total war games like napoleon are just too simple.

[-=PHX=-Hades]

That would be nice. I hate how certain total war games like napoleon are just too simple.

I agree, but as someone said before you don't want it to turn into one of those Paradox games where you have to manage 1,000 little things. I just want something simple like they have with the food system in Shogun to where your food level is X and if you need more you just build a farm. That way it's in the game and it's something to manage, but I don't have to spend most of my time dealing with supply lines and not the fun parts like battles.

[DeValiere]

Supply lines are indeed an integral part of real campaigns, no doubt about it. The lack of supplies has brought great armies to their knees. We all know that.

Would I want to see supply lines in TW?

No, not really. It would be just another thing to micro manage and too easily exploited by the AI if not handled carefully by CA (which for me would be a big part of my concern about supply lines in TW I'm afraid). They must surely have considered it however given it's importance to any military undertaking. It would be fascinating to know why it's never been attempted in all these years by CA. Have they refrained for game-play or technical reasons or do they simply not see it as belonging in the TW format???

I'd also submit that to a degree the concept of "supply lines" is in at least one aspect a relatively modern one. Armies lived off the land to a large degree in terms of food up until 19th century - Napoleon's march on Moscow was in part greatly troubled by the scorched earth retreat that the Russians conducted. It wasn't until the ACW that the logistics of supply started to take on a truly organised form. So, for most TW games IMO, attrition in foreign lands is more realistic than an army solely being reliant on tenuous lines of supply. Perhaps at most sea based lines of supply could be a feature - that was and still is the most vulnerable link in supply lines. You'd then have to consider what might be lost if a supply convoy was raided - would it be food, or more likely, weapons and ammo and reinforcements? You'd have to remove the ability to replenish your armies in the field if you wanted to implement supply lines - men don't just grow on trees. And you'd have to reflect a lack of supplies in how much ammo an army had to fire in battle...

My point is, how far would you want the supply lines concept to go? I think that might be why it's not a feature in TW. But this is just me musing on the poll question.

[Gaizokubanou]

Won't vote because there is not enough information on how it would be done.

Ideas for game mechanics are only as good as the execution.

[Fanest]

What i hate about this system we now have is that its so "plastic", u dont have the feeling that your soldiers are men but some gummi bears which gradually regain their shape in friendly provinces after been chewed in the battle. Implementing of such mechanism would to some degree remove this feeling. This has been done in Stainless Steel mod by Bygs submod, its not perfect but it works great in MTW2. CA has much more resources than Bygs, thats why they could do it as well and mybe even do it better

[krisslanza]

What i hate about this system we now have is that its so "plastic", u dont have the feeling that your soldiers are men but some gummi bears which gradually regain their shape in friendly provinces after been chewed in the battle. Implementing of such mechanism would to some degree remove this feeling. This has been done in Stainless Steel mod by Bygs submod, its not perfect but it works great in MTW2. CA has much more resources than Bygs, thats why they could do it as well and mybe even do it better

They probably got rid of how reinforcing worked in M2TW to reduce the micro. In S2TW, you don't have to worry about all your recruiting/replenishing would ruin the town's population and thus taxes.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

They probably got rid of how reinforcing worked in M2TW to reduce the micro. In S2TW, you don't have to worry about all your recruiting/replenishing would ruin the town's population and thus taxes.

Man, I miss this.

Why would they take out such a feature?

[nameless]

Man, I miss this.

Why would they take out such a feature?

Because as others said the AI would deplete its towns and would never ever upgrade it to the next level.

Plus since we're running on 12 turns per year (and I suspect CA may go more in this direction) it'd be impossible to replenish.

Look at FOTS, that's the only Daiymo you'll ever have, his sons will NEVER EVER join the fight.

I voted no on this. I don't see what's the point. It's almost like your bringing it in for the sake of bringing it in. The AI isn't exactly the best and people are already complaining about the AI raiding coastal areas with just one man ships.

Armies replenish themselves automatically and will do so faster if they are in friendly territory and even faster if there's a supply depot in the area.

If they're in enemy territory they cannot replenish and if it's winter it's even worse as they'll suffer attrition. In any case I'm sure most of us do not conduct campaigns in the winter which is somewhat historically correct.

Hell even the seasons have an effect on replenishments, movement points, etc. In summer we can replenish troops faster I believe.

The only way I can see it work is this.

The second the army leaves a town a supply route is established where we see caravens running from the town towards the army supplying it. Wherever it goes the route will change depending on which friendly city is the closest. If one area is blockaded then the army will get supplies from the next closest city and so forth.

If the army heads into enemy territory the caraven will still continue to supply as usual.

The second the caraven is cut off though (enemy blockades the roads or attacks the city) the army will start suffering attrition, even in friendly territory.

This can only work though if the army has a general attached to it. Otherwise you could have a thousand caravens running around with hundreds of one man armies. With only 5-6 generals on the field max (which is usually what we have) then you could have 5-6 caravens running around.

And only if the size of the provinces are expanded maybe 3x bigger. To me it'd make sense since it doesn't take very long to go from one province into the other to strike at the enemy town. FOTS's map is pretty big in that it takes time but I'd think you would need a much bigger province in order to make the "supply route" much more vital.

This would force us and the AI to take slower routes, more turns, and if possible we can establish a "beach head" in enemy territory and not worry about attrition rates even in winter so long as the supply routes are still open. This would mean more battles being fought in the provinces as it'll take longer to capture one. We could also build "Supply depots" along the way as well so if one is cut off we still have supplies for a short period of time before succumbing to attrition.

In any case it has to be done right and CA is smart in taking it slowly.

[Rorarii]

what your really asking for is reality, the more realistic a wargame, the more addictive.

BUT we all know CA won't put it in because the stupid AI won't be able to handle it .. plus CA re already building Rome 2, which means it has already been designed - ie FOTS withs no ZAP-BANG, replace map of Japan with Med sea, replace Kantana soldiers with legionaries, replace spearmen with hoplites, replace gunmen with skirmishers (javelin), replace steam ships with oared vessels .. and WULLA! ROME 2!

R

[Lazarus]

They probably got rid of how reinforcing worked in M2TW to reduce the micro. In S2TW, you don't have to worry about all your recruiting/replenishing would ruin the town's population and thus taxes.

They got rid of the reinforcement system from M2TW to accomodate the AI never replenishing its units (Go ahead, see if they'll ever fix a boat).

I do miss populations and I voted yes on the supply issue. Just make it simple though. I dont want to open a spread sheet to play the next TW - though admittedly that might see a rise in my University marks...

[Cathal]

No, I don't want more micro. Just give me good battles, varied units, graphics, some twists thrown in, etc... I don't want to have to worry if I have enough bullets or enough food for my army. Don't bog me down.