How fares AI Satsuma/Tosa in your game?

**aeoleron9** · April 13, 2012, 04:23 AM

So I've had a couple of campaigns, and sadly I've noticed the island factions Satsuma/Tosa always seem to be underpowered. The other major clans are on land-based so they generally expand pretty well but Satsuma and Tosa always seem to get locked in their Island corner and their naval invasions usually fail. My biggest gripe is how they love to ally with minor clans on their island and deny themselves a good way to expand. But they never seem to have any problem backstabbing me when I'm their ally.

Has anyone actually seen a strong Satsuma/Tosa? One that united their home island and branched out?

**Noif de Bodemloze** · April 13, 2012, 04:29 AM

Satsuma: In my campaigns, Satsuma is been really strong and had half kyushu island, As my Choshu campaign, I ruined their massive army and took whole kyushu. Those kyushu island minor factions are too friendly together (shogunate and imperial support factions hugging eachother) and always whole island make alliance between all. So Satsuma is good faction, not defensive and come when they get boost.

Tosa: Tosa is been too defensive in all my campaigns! I have never seen Tosa have 2 or more provinces. They have always problem take northest enemy out, until Saga/Choshu army come and take Lyon city for themself. Tosa need some improve that can get foward.

**LegolasGreenleaf** · April 13, 2012, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by ♔Noif♔

Satsuma: In my campaigns, Satsuma is been really strong and had half kyushu island, As my Choshu campaign, I ruined their massive army and took whole kyushu. Those kyushu island minor factions are too friendly together (shogunate and imperial support factions hugging eachother) and always whole island make alliance between all. So Satsuma is good faction, not defensive and come when they get boost.

Tosa: Tosa is been too defensive in all my campaigns! I have never seen Tosa have 2 or more provinces. They have always problem take northest enemy out, until Saga/Choshu army come and take Lyon city for themself. Tosa need some improve that can get foward.

Pretty much this. But I once had a campaign where Tosa went completely out of control. They captured Shikoku island, got a province in Kyushu and got to the mainland. I don't know how long they took it was very fast. Other than that nothing much out of the ordinary.

**Humble Warrior** · April 13, 2012, 06:57 AM

I`ve always liked the way factions can change with each new game. I remember Chosu becoming a powerhouse in one game and in a new game they were wiped out in a few turns! It happens to all of them. Depending on the game alternate reality (I like to think of it as) you never really know who will be the biggest threat. It keeps each new game interesting- Good one on CA there.

**Lazarus** · April 13, 2012, 04:41 AM

It's really weird. In my campaigns either both Tosa and Satsuma totally flop, like you described, or they both flourish and steam roll. There's never a middle ground, and they always either succeed or fail together.

**aeoleron9** · April 13, 2012, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by Lazarus

It's really weird. In my campaigns either both Tosa and Satsuma totally flop, like you described, or they both flourish and steam roll. There's never a middle ground, and they always either succeed or fail together.

Really? How did they steamroll? They actually naval invaded and defeat the land-based clans?

**Kraut** · April 13, 2012, 07:09 AM

I mostly see Satsuma doing pretty well, conquering all of Kyushu (or nearly all, letting Saga survive) and often expanding to Honshu afterwards.
But Tosa seems to be caged on Shikoku Island mostly.

**Tuan Jim** · April 13, 2012, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by aeoleron9

So I've had a couple of campaigns, and sadly I've noticed the island factions Satsuma/Tosa always seem to be underpowered. The other major clans are on land-based so they generally expand pretty well but Satsuma and Tosa always seem to get locked in their Island corner and their naval invasions usually fail. My biggest gripe is how they love to ally with minor clans on their island and deny themselves a good way to expand. But they never seem to have any problem backstabbing me when I'm their ally.

Has anyone actually seen a strong Satsuma/Tosa? One that united their home island and branched out?

I've started as Satsuma three times now. On my third try I made destroying Tosa a major priority because they expand explosively and block Satsuma from moving north. I had a had time wiping out Tosa as Satsuma because Tosa was expanding all over the place.

**Elitewolf** · April 13, 2012, 01:25 PM

In my Saga campaign Satsuma held 15 provinces, reaching from their half of kyushu almost to Tokyo. They then turned shogunate. Not fun.

**marceror** · April 13, 2012, 01:31 PM

Satsuma did REALLY well in my... well, my Satsuma campaign. They ended up with like 56 provinces, and there were no more factions loyal to the Shogun!

In my Jozai campaign they got beaten back to 2 provinces by Saga before realm divide occured.

Tosa was completely wiped our by Wakayama (sp?).

**Gaizokubanou** · April 13, 2012, 01:31 PM

Satsuma is bit of mixed result for me. Out of my 10+ campaigns, they had some spectacular successes and some miserable failures.

Tosa mostly got the island they started off of, then they just sat there for the rest of the game.

**krisslanza** · April 13, 2012, 01:34 PM

I think some of it stems from how the AI reacts if its on an "island". Satsuma I think isn't as affected since it can cross into the mainland... but Tosa needs to build a fleet to actually expand into the mainland and this, for some reason, his hit or miss for the AI. I've seen games where Sado never gets beyond its starting island... then others it cuts a swath through the mainland and becomes a major power.

**aeoleron9** · April 13, 2012, 01:45 PM

Yes exactly, island factions are quite handicapped cause they often have nowhere to go, and naval invasions are so risky for the AI. Either they get intercepted enroute or they get easily crushed by the land-based factions.

That said, factions with huge regions are also at an disadvantage cause they cannot move and steamroll as easily as the ones in central Japan. In every single campaign I've played, a faction from central Japan grows into a 15+ region monster while the historical major players just stay in their corners and send invasion fleets at each other. The imperials because they're islanders, the Shogunates because they're stuck with huge regions.

I'm guessing the times you guys saw Satsuma grow strong is when it takes the Choshu lands and invade Honshu. That's pretty much the only way they could become strong, in my experience.