Using Javelins in the Front

[Waleios]

Do any of you find this particularly useful?

I usually find that placing skirmish units in front of my main line does little to trim down the advance of oncoming enemy soldiers... Especially if those soldiers coming at my line are well-armoured.

In most cases, I find myself using skirmishers only if I get desperate and can't spare a cavalry charge.

[Entropy Judge]

Generally speaking, no, I don't find Javelins (or pila, soliferra, or anything I've missed) from the front particularly useful. Armour and Shield get in the way too much. It *can* be effective if you can hit them in the middle of a "Charge," but that usually means whichever unit is throwing is about to get hit anyway. If you're up a hill, that can also boost kill output to a respectable level.

Of course, Skirmishers were rarely (if ever) expected to do really serious damage anyway - they were just to annoy the opponent and hopefully break up his formation (which frontline Skirmishers can do pretty well).

I use Skirmishers as flankers, generally. If I can get them behind the enemy line to throw into their backs, I'll do it, but I don't generally count on it. If you use pikemen, you can also stick the Skirmishers just behind the pikemen and you won't get too many FF casualties, since the enemy is held up on the other side of the pikes. In any case, I generally only use Skirmishers that can also stand on their melee merits anyway, so no Akontistai or similar units, just Peltastai and up.

[smoesville]

I use skirmishers in front of the army to screen the heavy infantry from the shock of cavalry or enemy skirmishers. I also use them to kill elephants. I don't usually use them with a phalangite army except at the flanks where they screen the hypaspists or whatever i'm using to guard the flank, the phalanx can take frontal cavalry charge but the hoplite/hypaspists can't really without too many casualties.

[Thiril]

I do not find them that usefull (heck even their discription says their worthless peasants)
But I see myself using their full potential in some cases, when facing an enemy army with low morale (led by captains or rebels for example) they are very strong.
Make a line with your infantry (or phanlanxes depending where you fight) and place your javelins right behind them. I've noticed in 7/10 that an enemy charge can break before they even reach your lines (or atleast after a few blows from your battle line) And I play on hard/very hard battle difficulty.
It doesn't work against strong opponents though, you'll get some kills out of it, and then your left with cannon fodder. But a few enemies routing before the main battle starts really works in your favor.

[smoesville]

I've also used them in a fire and retreat tactic, one unit launches their javelins and falls back then the next unit does the same. It can take a lot of micro management which sometimes isn't worth the effort and doesn't work against heavy phalangites but has worked well against elephants.

[Sar1n]

I sometimes use skirmishers as meatshields. Loose formation ahead of main battle line to absorb enemy missiles, and blunt enemy charge. Lost of them die, but they're cheap.

[smoesville]

Also there are numerous mercenary/local versions to get if you are away from your homeland. I did that for all my Roman campaigns, it meant the real troops could spend far longer in the field without having to be replaced or sent to retrain. One of my legions spent 50+ turns in the field before being recalled for the reforms refit (polybian) though there were only 200-ish men left at that point of the original legionaires (the triarii/hastati/principes). They were then sent to Italia and settled in some of the northern provinces to bring them to the next level of town.

[Ferdiad]

I only use Skirmishers as Cannon Fodder, I never actually recruit them.

[DarthLazy]

I only use Skirmishers as Cannon Fodder, I never actually recruit them.

Wait what?

[bojieh]

Guess he means he only uses the ones he starts with?!

[Diocle]

I only use Skirmishers as Cannon Fodder, I never actually recruit them.

Ferdi these are wise and intelligent words!!! Skirmishers are only Cannon Folder!!! ...+rep!!!

[forzafiori]

I use the hell out of javelins, but I only use ones that can fight as light infantry, and I use them as flankers. I also tend to double them up on whatever their aiming at (I keep 4/army, 2/flank, obviously). At worst, They'll kill some horsemen with a throw and get charged, trading cheep soldiers for expensive ones and possibly tying up the horses long enough for good spearmen to get there. At best, you get them behind the enemy, and decimate the rear of their line, right before your cavalry charge home. It'll break almost any infantry.

[bojieh]

Javelins are both deadly and useful. I always use skirmisher troops in my early game, but tend to drop them out as the game progresses, save for peltasts(Thracian, if I'm lucky), which can act as decent medium swordsmen, when out of ammo. I guess, I used up the most javelins in the front in my go with the Romani. Most of their infantry lacks a nice charge bonus, but has a couple of pilas in return. Depending on your formation, you can kill around 10-15% of a charging heavy infantry unit(a lot less for phalanx and static units), with 1 to 3 units throwing at an enemy unit. Also good for morale loss. But when you get more into the game and the AI uses more and better units, skirmishers(basic, unarmored types) are only good as missile targets and "soft wall" for cavalry.

[HUtH]

In my Mekedonia campaign I used a lot of units that throw any sharp stick at the enemy, they were my second line behind phalanxes. My tactic with them was to catch the enemy on sarissas, then throw everything on them at their right side(so a unit was throwing from behind the phalanx at enemy that hit another phalanx on the right) and then hit the enemy with the throwers from my left flank... my right flank was usually secured by hoplitai and cavalry... well generally my cavalry was everywhere on the battlefield, but it's another story

Now I started playing Bactria... well situation is so critical that I had to use heavy skirmishers as regular first line infantry, because they have some armour at least... heh I need to start again

[athanaric]

Now I started playing Bactria... well situation is so critical that I had to use heavy skirmishers as regular first line infantry, because they have some armour at least... heh I need to start again

Baktria can recruit three kinds of excellent skirmishers (Hellenic, Indo-Hellenic, and Baktrian), who can double as medium swordsmen, medium spearmen, and light axemen, respectively. Nevertheless, there are enough affordable units that are better suited for serving in the battle line. Parthian Spearmen, for example.

[smoesville]

Take Kophen and upper India and you can get Indo-Hellenic hoplites. Kophen is also a great stronghold since it is the only route the Ai takes usually into India, it also has a bridge to the south which can be used to defend easily.

[HUtH]

Take Kophen and upper India and you can get Indo-Hellenic hoplites. Kophen is also a great stronghold since it is the only route the Ai takes usually into India, it also has a bridge to the south which can be used to defend easily.

I'll certainly do it when I'll start again... That was a mistake to capture Marakanda, Alex.-Eschate and then Chach in first turns... I cannot fight Pahlava, Saka and AS at once, though I taken Alex.-Ariana and Prophthasia meanwhile... I even used Force Diplomacy to "sign" a ceasefire with AS. But it was only 2 turns when I "could" focus on Saka and hold Pahlava at bay... and then AS blitzed me and besieged Marakanda, Baktria, Alex.-Ariana and Prophtasia in one turn! Well, that's a downside of "realistic movement" which I decrease to 170 from 240(comparing to original 80). Anyway end of this off-topic, I don't see a way out of these wars unless sacrificing some sattlements and that is unacceptable, because of mnai I packed in them

[smoesville]

I did what you did but also had kophen and i was expelled from everywhere except Kophen by the Pahlava and AS. Saka have always been my allies though.

[HUtH]

Well, my mistake was also building economical and law buildings instead of military in Bactria(I don't even built stone walls...) and even establishing I type government in Marakanda and Alex-Eschate... so many turns and money - that's why my only field "mighty" half-stack army led by 10-star Diodotos(the heir) mainly consists of eastern slingers and throwers... and they did quite well I must say But it's like guerilla war, totally different from my Makedon campaing, when my biggest problem was "do I need this full stack fighting now in Illyria or it's better to send them to Asia Mikra as the support for my royal and heir's armies in blitzing AS"

[Waleios]

I guess I was just wondering why I sometimes see people posting their formations with akontistai/peltastai in the front. I guess they're mainly placed there as meat shields... Which I suppose has some merit when you're facing a line of infantry who throw a javelin before charging.