American Cubans are ridiculous

[Kanaric]

"I respect Fidel Castro," Guillen said in the article. "You know why? A lot of people have wanted to kill Fidel Castro for the last 60 years, but that son of a is still there."

5 game suspension, forced press conference apology, 50% of a city wanting a man to be fired. That is what such a nothing of a comment gets you in cubatown. Ozzy Guillen is the GM of the Florida Marlin's baseball team.

No wonder we can't even open trade with them people flipping out at a drop of a hat over someones opinions and every caving to outraged offended jackasses. Someone has to pretend to have another opinion because the fact is he still thinks that way right now. Its just that people don't want to hear a nothingness so they will flip the out over it. Would anyone flip out this hard if he said it about Ahmedinijad or Chavez? No. Nobody would care. We really got to stop catering to these people. I hope if Obama wins in November he gives the ignorant segment of the Cuban community the middle finger and opens up trade.

[s.rwitt]

I'm all for opening up trade but if a similar comment were made in a town full of Iranian or Venezuelan expats/refugees/whatever with very recent memories of abuse by Ahmedinijad or Chavez you'd probably see a very similar reaction.

[TheDarkKnight]

I'm all for opening up trade but if a similar comment were made in a town full of Iranian or Venezuelan expats/refugees/whatever with very recent memories of abuse by Ahmedinijad or Chavez you'd probably see a very similar reaction.

Exactly.

Certain groups of people here in the United States can praise other countries all they want but when it comes to opinions of rulers, I'd sooner listen to people who have actually lived there than people who haven't. There MUST be a reason why so many Cubans attempt to flee when they get the chance.


This reminds me somewhat of a situation with Sean Penn and a former costar ( Maria Conchita Alonso) getting into it in public over Penn's support for Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez. Penn is a Chavez fanatic who seems to view Chavez as a god among leaders. Yet Alonso, who is actually from Venezuela, views Chavez in a complete opposite manner, and claims that Penn has absolutely no idea what he is talking about when he praises Chavez.

Now, who should we really listen to? Someone who has lived in the nation and under the ruler in question, or someone who can only really view the leader from the outside?

In any case, I really don't agree with calls for the man to be fired. But I can understand the outrage.

[Prosaic Visitant]

Would anyone flip out this hard if he said it about Ahmedinijad or Chavez? No. Nobody would care. We really got to stop catering to these people. I hope if Obama wins in November he gives the ignorant segment of the Cuban community the middle finger and opens up trade.

Say Ahmadinejad is a hero and the greatest president ever or something like that in parts of LA and find out.

[motiv-8]

An even more apt comparison would be going to Los Angeles and invoking the name of Khomeini in any sort of good light. Persian community there would be furious. Even in North Carolina I lived with a girl whose family was connected with the Shah's, her aunt was murdered for refusing to leave Iran after the revolution. She hates them, and it's a hatred very much shared. Bottom line is, Kanaric, don't call people ridiculous when you have absolutely no sense of where they're coming from. It's, well, ridiculous.

Edit: Gehhhhh Malzahar beat me to it.

[Søren]

It's embarrassment to the sport that the MLB Commissioner has said that he supports punishing Guillen, for exercising his First Amendment right to hold an opinion on a foreign leader. That's the real story here. It's not completely surprising that the Cuban fans reacted that way, and that the Marlins sucked up to their fans by suspended him. He's a known Chavez/Castro sympathiser so I wouldn't care for him much either, but a representative of an official sports body saying he should be punished for his opinions is a different matter.

[Justice and Mercy]

It needs to be noted that you forgot the part that has really pissed people off, which is: "I love Fidel Castro."

The guy is ing stupid. He's known for that. I understand the anger of Cuban Americans. If your family left your home country to escape a dictator, I doubt you'd like people who claimed to "love" said dictator.

But yes, asking for the team to get rid of him is ridiculous.

[Kitsunegari]

In an area with a large Jewish population like South Florida a pro-Ahmadinejad comment probably wouldn't have gone over well, just sayin

[s.rwitt]

It's embarrassment to the sport that the MLB Commissioner has said that he supports punishing Guillen, for exercising his First Amendment right to hold an opinion on a foreign leader. That's the real story here. It's not completely surprising that the Cuban fans reacted that way, and that the Marlins sucked up to their fans by suspended him. He's a known Chavez/Castro sympathiser so I wouldn't care for him much either, but a representative of an official sports body saying he should be punished for his opinions is a different matter.

That representative is most concerned with the way it makes his official sports body look. That's a big part of his job.

[priam11]

Exactly. Since the Marlins have just got their new ballpark up and running the last thing they want is a significant size of their potential fan base not going to their games.

But at the same time, they had to know who they are hiring. Its Ozzie Guillen for fraks sake.

He is a face of an organization, he can say what he wants but the Marlins have the right to reign him in if he crosses the line.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

This suspension is not at all ridiculous. The Florida Marlins franchise moved their team to Little Havana, Miami in order to attract the Cuban American population to come see their games. Ozzie Guillen is an incredibly important representative of the Miami Marlins. The fact that one of the most important figures for the fledgling Miami Marlins praised a dictator that is responsible for the displacement, oppression, and killing of the demographic the team's stadium is located in and is trying to appeal to. His comments were beyond stupid and insensitive.

His right to free speech isn't being infringed upon, he's just being penalized for how he represented the team -- his employer. This is the right move. 5/162 games missed. Hardly the same compared to if this happened to an American Football coach.

[Cougar109]

This suspension is not at all ridiculous. The Florida Marlins franchise moved their team to Little Havana, Miami in order to attract the Cuban American population to come see their games. Ozzie Guillen is an incredibly important representative of the Miami Marlins. The fact that one of the most important figures for the fledgling Miami Marlins praised a dictator that is responsible for the displacement, oppression, and killing of the demographic the team's stadium is located in and is trying to appeal to. His comments were beyond stupid and insensitive.

His right to free speech isn't being infringed upon, he's just being penalized for how he represented the team -- his employer. This is the right move. 5/162 games missed. Hardly the same compared to if this happened to an American Football coach.

The thing is I'm not really sure how one could look at what he said as actual praise towards the things that make Castro hated. He didn't support the man's politics or his harsh rule, he didn't applaud the firing squads or the mass imprisonment of "political enemies". He said he respected the mans ability to not get killed when literally a quarter of the world was trying to kill him. I have no issue with the Marlins suspending him, but the public reaction and the storm created by the older Cuban generations down here is ridiculous given what was actually said. Busting out the torches and pitchforks and demanding the man be fired and deported because you twisted the words to something more impudent than was actually said is very, Castro-esque we could say.

[Heathen Hammer]

Ah the freedom of speech. And how it can be easily removed when it goes against the "correct" views.

[priam11]

Whoosh. Right over your head.

[DisgruntledGoat]

Ah the freedom of speech. And how it can be easily removed when it goes against the "correct" views.

Freedom of speech doesn't exist with your employer. That is only something you are guaranteed by the government. Lawrence has the right of it and I agree completely with what he said.

[Heathen Hammer]

Freedom of speech doesn't exist with your employer. That is only something you are guaranteed by the government. Lawrence has the right of it and I agree completely with what he said.

If employer penalized him for stating his opinion on a subject unrelated to his work, than its not justified. I don't know about US, but in Canada his employer could have been easily sued.

Yeah, damn them for moving to a country where they can live without fear of the government shooting them for no particular reason... Shoulda stayed in Cuba and kept enjoying glorious Socialism...

I just have to:

[athanaric]

[quip]

You don't remember the glorious days of Comrade Guevara, then?

[Heathen Hammer]

You don't remember the glorious days of Comrade Guevara, then?

Given that Che helped Cubans free their country from Batista's thugs and bourgeois oppressors, no wonder them and their American friends have "bad" memories about him and Castro.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

If employer penalized him for stating his opinion on a subject unrelated to his work, than its not justified.

His statement became related to his work because his work is to help a sports franchise become successful. Part of helping any franchise is appealing to people who will pay for your product. His statement offended the fans where the stadium is located and cast the franchise in a negative light on a national scale let alone a regional scale.

I don't know about US, but in Canada his employer could have been easily sued.

Here's the thing: it's completely legal for a Canadian employer to even FIRE an employee for an identical statement since they are a privately owned company. It's not considered discriminatory under Canadian law let alone American law.

Equality Rights

15. (1) Every individual is equal before the and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age, or mental or physical disability.

Even if his employer was the Canadian government, he could be fired for speech-related incidents if those incidents impair his ability to do his job effectively. If that means taking a stand on a political issue is deemed to be impairing his job, then yes, he can be fired.

So, yes, he could sue his employer and lose but instead he is getting a slap on the wrist and keeping his job.

Given that Che helped Cubans free their country from Batista's thugs and bourgeois oppressors, no wonder them and their American friends have "bad" memories about him and Castro.

You know, it's a bit funny and even more ridiculous that you criticize Americans casting Castro in a negative light but you all but call Che Guevara and Fidel Castro liberators when they're both documented war criminals.

[Heathen Hammer]

His statement became related to his work because his work is to help a sports franchise become successful. Part of helping any franchise is appealing to people who will pay for your product. His statement offended the fans where the stadium is located and cast the franchise in a negative light on a national scale let alone a regional scale.

How is saying that you respect a politician offending? Its not like Castro was like Pol Pot or Stalin.

Here's the thing: it's completely legal for a Canadian employer to even FIRE an employee for an identical statement since they are a privately owned company. It's not considered discriminatory under Canadian law let alone American law.

There are certain grounds under which you can fire people. Firing an employee for his statement regarding some politician is not a reasonable nor legal ground for firing somebody, let alone an infringement on his right for freedom of expression and speech.

Even if his employer was the Canadian government, he could be fired for speech-related incidents if those incidents impair his ability to do his job effectively. If that means taking a stand on a political issue is deemed to be impairing his job, then yes, he can be fired.

So, yes, he could sue his employer and lose but instead he is getting a slap on the wrist and keeping his job.

Not really, as I explained earlier, according to CCoRaF, which is entrenched into Canadian Constitution he has a right for freedom of expression, only limits being hate speech and stuff like that. "Slap on the wrist" for saying he likes Castro would be violation of his constitutional freedoms.

You know, it's a bit funny and even more ridiculous that you criticize Americans casting Castro in a negative light but you all but call Che Guevara and Fidel Castro liberators when they're both documented war criminals.

Oh please, they are "documented war criminals" to the same extent US is, if not less. Except that saying that you respect Bush or Truman won't lead to such consequences. Plus I was mostly responding to a hyperbole with a hyperbole, although I do think that Cuba, in fact, changed for the better after the revolution.

Yes they were "freed" by being placed under another oppresive dictatorship while the madman Che tried to bring down more governments around the world trying to cause more suffering.

Yeah, while regimes that Che helped people fight against were all free and democratic. Spare me your pseudo-moralistic rhetoric.

Is Guillen going to be shot?
Is Guillen going to be arrested?
Is Guillen's family going to be shot?
Is Guillen's family going to be arrested?

In Cuba, he would and his family may fall not long after.

How many people in Cuba got shot/arrested for saying they respect some US president?