Requesting tips on Pontos

[Thiril]

Hi everyone,

Finished most of the major factions, so I diverted my attention to some of the smaller kingdoms in the east. Pontos drew my attention, an empire in Asia Minor, spreading over the Bosphoros, claiming the black sea.

However, 2 decades in I face a helpless struggle against the might of the Selucids.

I've tried several strategies allready; Capturing Sinope and face the wrath of the Greeks (not sure if I should be scared, never got far in the campaign). Expanding West to Ancrya and Nicosea. Rushing south betraying the Selucids and capturing Ipsus and Mazzerna.

But each time I face the same problem, I'm bankrupt by the time I can capture my first cities and need several turns to be able to build new things. (Starting armies are rather treasury intensive) The Selucids betray me wether or not I stay allied with them and as a result I face stacks of enemies bashing at my door. And with a weak economy and small armies, there is no way I can hold them back, simply no time nor money to rebuild armies.

So... Anyone has some tips how to tackle those first decades?

[Yomamashouse]

Well what worked (this was a long way back so I don't have all the details) for me was the rapid expansion technique. You take you starting armies and blitz to cities in northern anatolia (don't worry about the greeks, they are all bark no bite). I forget what the pontic starting treasury is, but spend it all right off the bat. If I recall, my initial barracks allowed for the production of the greatest militia unit in the game - Pantodapoi Phalangitai - they are my favourite unit in the game because they are the ultimate bread and butter defence unit.

I believe I spent as much of my initial treasury as I could on PP and exploited the fact that once they were in the queue they were going to be trained. I would leave the PP in my capital and send everything else including family members (they suck on defence) to pillage and capture. When I conquered a city I am fairly certain I took as much money from them as I could even though the population was reduced. Basically, a combination of having excellent siege-winning tactics (minimizing casualties from enemy sallying) and maintaining as many PP in the capital (where the seleucids attacked almost every time) allowed me expand and capture cities with one force while effectively funnelling the endless troops of the seleucids into a phalanx death trap.

I get back to my gaming computer in two days so I will give them a try and see if what I just said works as well as it did before.

[The Kybrothilian]

You should check Friendlyfire's Pontos AAR. It shows a good guideline to how to start a pontic campaign. He hasn't continued it for a while, but the AAR updates continue to year 237 BC.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=514707

[athanaric]

Hire a unit of "Enoci Curoas" (the Celtic mercenaries with long swords, not the shortswordsmen) the first turn. They will really facilitate any siege you may be planning. From a purely strategic PoV, it's best to send one army to take Mazaka ASAP, while the bigger part of your force takes Ipsos and then Sardis. Then you can rush Side and Tarsos, unless you've made peace with the Ptolies before bordering them.
if you don't like starting wars, take Ankyra and Sinope first. It's doable with your starting force plus the unit of mercenaries. However then you'll risk a Seleukid attack before you can afford to recruit or even retrain units.

[Ferdiad]

Didn't we have a fairly big thread on this a while back, I can't find it though.

[Boriak]

As someone who successfully took over the entire Asia Minor with Pontos on VH/M, I can tell you that the key is to attack all three Seleucid cities at the same time. As they are allies in the beginning, you can safely move all your forces in until it is time to strike. Once that is done, send your phalanxes to guard the bridge east of Tarsos, this is the entry point for Seleucid retribution. Sometimes they will try another approach slightly up north but even that is across a bridge and shouldn't be difficult to defend. I think I defended that one with levies, no phalanxes at all.


Ah, I found my old comments for Pontos:

I made up my mind to try a Pontos campaign. I use Alex Engine, VH/M. I blitzed the three Seleucid cities in Asia Minor which gave me enough income to start a successful economy. The Seleucids made two feeble attempts to retake their land but as soon as I put my phalanxes on the bridge they had to cross they turned and ran.

The biggest military concern comes from the Eleutheroi. On VH they are very aggresive and most of their cities are heavily defended. I've had me a problematic Eleutheroi general named Alkibiades coming dangerously close to Sardis with a couple of Greek Hoplites, mercenary phalanxes, Thracian horse and some slingers. I put two levy phalanxes and a Hoplitai Haploi unit along with two FMs on a bridge. Alkibiades was crushed and my FMs never needed to intervene.

It's 260 BC. My Pontos campaign is coming along nicely so I can safely say that I've crossed the shaky bridge that is 'beginning a Pontos campaign'. If anyone needs help with it, I can advise. So far, I would point out the following:

- attack all three Seleucid cities in Asia Minor at once (stated on numerous occasion). Ignore the Eleutheroi provinces until you are done.
- DO NOT attack Tarsos. Allow it to remain in Ptolemaic hands. There are three passages for the Seleucids to threaten your holdings in Asia Minor. The northest is blocked by Hayasdan, the middle one goes across a bridge and can be blocked with nothing but a single levy phalanx, a unit of spearmen (or two levy phalanx units) and a sword-infantry unit (Karian Warband mercenaries come to mind). A unit of archers would do well to supress enemy slingers/archers. The third passage goes past Tarsos and if that remains Ptolemaic, the Seleucids do not want to cross it. The cheapest kind of defence. Of course if Seleucids take Tarsos then by all means attack and conquer it and use the adjacent bridges.
- take care of all rebel armies spawning ASAP. They are killers for economic growth. I've used levy phalanxes, some slingers and the FM unit. Caucasian archers are also cheap and good at their work. Use levy skirmishers to run around and tire the enemy if they do not have cavalry. If you lose them, there's not much of a loss. Use your FM in combination with a spear unit (Greek or Caucasian levies) to destroy Eleutheroi cavalry (usually Armenian medium cavalry or Gallic heavy).
- take your time with your economy. Most of Asia Minor already has good roads, also has Persian Royal Road which increases law. Some provinces have mines. Concentrate on population growth. Small towns cannot supply much of an army.
- Do not attack Galatia quickly. Their Naked warriors can tear your Levy phalanxes to pieces. If you lose an army in this way, it might mean suicide. Wait until you can field some cavalry units. Then use hammer/anvil technique on the NAked dudes.

[athanaric]

What? I thought Alkibiades was a stationary defender of Pergamon. Never seen him wander far (usually gets crushed by AI Makedonia after 30 or so years of constant assaults). Haven't watched him on VH, though

- Do not attack Galatia quickly. Their Naked warriors can tear your Levy phalanxes to pieces. If you lose an army in this way, it might mean suicide. Wait until you can field some cavalry units. Then use hammer/anvil technique on the NAked dudes.

Hmm as one who doesn't like to declare war, I've usually attacked Galatia first. It's doable with careful and methodic placement of the levy phalanxes (because if they face the wrong way, they get eaten), and the slinger and skirmisher units you start with (who should run to the wall and specifically target the naked fanatics). Also the aforementioned mercenary swordsmen can be put to good use. Generally the key to defeating the Galatian garrison is to use a lot of missiles and always present the pikes in the direction of the naked dudes (needs some micro but so do other approaches). Cavalry isn't that great in cities. This is on M/M though, on VH/M I'd deal with AS first.

[smoesville]

Yeah on VH the rebels do tend to be a bit more aggressive. More like minor factions than some straw men that hold the places until the real factions take over. It's one of the things that makes the Casse so difficult, disbanded my army to start making a little money and then 10 turns later the northern tribe of rebels attacks

[Thiril]

I've noticed that Alkibiades dares to wander as far as Sinope if he wants, you can draw his attention when you siege the town east of Pergamon (forgot the name). And believe me, he'll chase you with his army to the ends of the earth.

Anyway; thanks for all the tips allready, I've started a blitz campaign on the Selucid towns in Asia Minor (so far only 2/3) forgot to seperate my power. Thinking to do a quick restart to get it right from the start to siege all towns at once.

Quick side note though, the advise is to hold the bridge with some levy phalanxes. But I cannot help to wonder, won't they be crushed under the might of a selucid charge? Not to mention the possibility of breaking due low morale? I play H/H.

[athanaric]

Quick side note though, the advise is to hold the bridge with some levy phalanxes. But I cannot help to wonder, won't they be crushed under the might of a selucid charge? Not to mention the possibility of breaking due low morale? I play H/H.

They can hold off almost anything with their pikes. You need to guard their flanks with some swordsmen or axemen and some cavalry though. And H or VH battles distort the thing a little bit since the AI gets buffed stats.

[smoesville]

I play VH/VH or VH/H and it is possible to fight and win but you tend to take more casualties. That said 5 units of Pantodapoi Phalangitai held a bridge against a Ptolomaic army of Pezhetairoi, Klerouchikon Agema and Klerouchoi Phalangitai. 2 of them broke when they were down to 80 men or thereabouts. I don't think a single unit could hold in Hard battles, they will take too many losses too quickly.

[Boriak]

Put two phalanxes in a V formation at the end of a bridge and nothing can get through (except elephants, I haven't tried it with elephants.) The only problem is that if the Seleucid bodyguard cavalry manages to get through the pikes, they can push the phalanx apart, making room for others. If this happens, it's good to have a backup unit. Levy hoplites are enough to stop the bodyguard from pushing the phalanx away, Karian Warband good for anything else.

It's possible to guard the bridge with one phalanx unit. Place it at a 45 degree angle to the bridge. This will cause the enemy to turn towards the phalanx and present their backs to whatever skirmisher/javelin unit you have ready on the opposite side. You can even use hammer/anvil this way if you charge your horses right along the river.

[Waleios]

So I have a personal rule of always playing campaigns on VH/VH, no exceptions. This weekend I decided to give Pontos a shot.

I failed 5 times before finally finding something that worked.

A lot of what people have said about Pontos will work on Medium battle difficulty - for example, with Medium you can easily blitz three small armies and take three cities of your choice in the first few turns. Very Hard battle difficulty makes that method impossible, so I was forced to combine all my armies in one.

After leaving two phalanx units in the capital, I take my army and besiege Galatia first, then Seleukid-held Phrygia and Lydia. The reason why is that all three of these cities have built gold mines at the game's start, which is necessary to acquire ASAP, or you risk being tens of thousands of mnai in debt while the Seleukids throw full-stacks at you. As soon as you get those three, you finally start making a profit and ensure that offensives only come from the east. Every other method I've tried has left me broke and defenseless when the onset of Seleukids came. The other Anatolian cities are just not that wealthy at game start.

[Thiril]

I've started over and rushed the Selucids, with succes!
I claimed the three towns they held, had to fight the battles myself though and they weren't easy, the phalanxes won everything.
The retalliated with an army besieging Mazaka which I repelled with a heroic victory. They had a full stack coming for me after that but Fortune smiled for me.
The Egyptians declared war and their army was held up by rebels.
And just conquered Ancrya aswell! (those barbarians sure are a though nut to crack)
Managed to ally myself with the Egyptians to secure my southern borders and got a ceasefire with the Selucids.
I'm focusing now on my economy, my towns really need to grow. When the time is ripe I'll claim the northern regions of Asia Minor.

[F4u5t]

hey, what do i need as playing Pontos to recruit klerouchoi phallangitai? I am already able to recruit chalkaspides but not the medium phalangites :F which building at which level and in which region do i need to be able to recruit those klerouchoi phallangites?

[Nad]

The Hellenic medium phalanxes are regional units not factional. You need a level 3 or lower government (ie level 4 regional barracks) in a Hellenic settlement, such as sardis or Antiocheia.

[F4u5t]

The Hellenic medium phalanxes are regional units not factional. You need a level 3 or lower government (ie level 4 regional barracks) in a Hellenic settlement, such as sardis or Antiocheia.

i have build the last governors palace in sardis (24000 pop) and all the barracks you can build after that and i have put there a government II level building but still i cannot build those medium phallangites :F

one of the barracks i built is even unable to recruit any unit, there is only the info text and no units shown that are possible to recruit there :F

[TWWolfe]

regional barracks, not factional barracks. those are the ones with the brown roofs in thier picture. you may need to temporarily go to lvl 3 or 4 gov to get it.

[F4u5t]

regional barracks, not factional barracks. those are the ones with the brown roofs in thier picture. you may need to temporarily go to lvl 3 or 4 gov to get it.

i built all the barracks available but indeed i established only government type 1 and 2 in those regions, i will try to switch...

[Cyclops]

I've done well with Pontos but if the Grey Death roll too early (second year) you're toast. The usual sign they mean business (as always) is a couple of visits from a diplomat who doesn't ask for anything. That's a sign to recruit your second stack at the capital, rather than pulling blokes back from expanding west.

I leave my FL at home (by the time he dies of old age he'll have a replacement mature) and roll north and west. War with KH is actually an exploitable, as is the starting war with Ptollies: I allow myself to exploit this for an 8-10,000 mnai peace settlement which is an exploit but early the money makes the difference vs the AI bottomless treasury. I use FM's heavily, and native phalanxes and spearmen with a few archers and that will get you to your first empire, basically modern turkey.

When Seleucids attack, move south and take whassisname Mazaka? and hit Asia Minor for the cash. Short wars with KH and Makedon will net you the islands too (Myteline and Rhoedes) and make peace again. I tend to take Galatia last, although it has epic AORS if you go type IV.

Stay solid with Hayasdan, they should respect you until you take both Trapezous and the inland one south of that, your eastern borders.

I tend not to go for the Crimean adventure when it arrives (anyone know the trigger?) but its a defensible spot with a choke point and some decent AORs.

With Asia Minor yours you could go Balkan but I stop at Byzantium as a useful and defendable point. South and east through Killikia is the best way, or hold at the Killikian gates and take Armenia.