CA said many times that they diddn't make modding tools trough the complexity of the engines.
Complete and utter bull. That's possibly a good excuse not to make a campaign editor, but the rest isn't at all complex. If modders could make programs like the DB Editor and the Pack File Manager, the developers should be able to make similiar programs easily.
Complete and utter bull. That's possibly a good excuse not to make a campaign editor, but the rest isn't at all complex. If modders could make programs like the DB Editor and the Pack File Manager, the developers should be able to make similiar programs easily.
CA like Dice could release them they just don't want to. the trend is to make the more spectacular games in the shortest time to spend the least possible money. modding tools means people working on that. CA don't release them since sega bought them that's summarizing the situation.
actually modding tools are not used by much people and mods aren't either. I played every tw game and expansion and I never play any mods I like vanilla games. to do modding tools won't bring any more customers it's no decisive features for the average Joe. why spend more money when you can avoid that?
I prefer the devs to focus on the actual game and after the release on the remaining bugs than some of them being diverted to please very few people. most people prefer a bug free game than a bugged moddable game. empire had so many bugs at release...
and last mods are often created to fix bugs and missing features from an actual game. the better the game the less needed is the mod.
They don't release the modding tools because frankly, the modders we have here are too damn good (look at Third Age TW). I think they are afraid that if they release mod tools people will make such good mods they wont buy the next expansion or the next game. For example if Rome 2 is the next game and they release it with mod tools the modders we have here could easily turn it into a Medieval game and if CA wanted the next game to be Medieval 3 people might not bother spending the money if they can just download the mod for Rome 2. At least that's my take on why they don't do it. And I can't say I completely disagree with them. But it would be nice if, when a new game comes out, they released tools for some of the older games. So like when whatever the next game is comes out, why not give us tools for Empire and Napoleon.
Because there aren't profits to be made in people modding? Of course there's customer loyalty, but people gobble up their products anyway, so why bother?
Last edited by Veliky Kaiser Theos; April 06, 2012 at 11:49 AM.
If CA did something like Bethesda with modding tools and Steam support they would be onto a winner. Most of the people i know and to a degree myself included don't play mods because its a little daunting to go though the forums to find a mod you like the sound of and getting it to work on you're PC (not always very easy).
And there is the added fear for those less techy people that this might really be some kind of a scam and they will steal all my money.
However I can see why they wouldn't release them, for as Hades said modders might outshine the developers. But surely a load of payed professional's doing it full time can out match the modders in terms of speed?
actually modding tools are not used by much people and mods aren't either.
Go ahead and guess which sub forum is the most visited and busy on this web alone.
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If CA did something like Bethesda with modding tools and Steam support they would be onto a winner. Most of the people i know and to a degree myself included don't play mods because its a little daunting to go though the forums to find a mod you like the sound of and getting it to work on you're PC (not always very easy).
modders lose their projects to CA ive they put it on steam? the rights i mean?
Just gonna throw out this thought on the whole modding aspect.
I've been lurking for a while, and I constantly see people bemoaning the lack of mod support. It seems the main problem is that modern TW games lack the ability to modify the art side; as I believe data values and such are perfectly moddable (my personal favourite mod is just a simple one to remove projectile trails.)
Let me give you my perspective on this as a video game artist. First off, they are not lying about the complexity of modern engines; especially proprietary ones like Warscape. That doesn't necessarily mean that modders are stupid, but it does mean that getting a working release of an engine that might well have a complex pipeline is not as simple as you might think; especially when they need to make sure this is done in such a way as to safeguard their property. Let's also remember that if any middleware has been used in the engine, that's a huge barrier for releasing mod tools because there is software being used there that CA does not have the right to distribute.
I wouldn't be so naive as to believe that the sale of DLC's and expansions doesn't factor in as well, but do remember; video games cost a lot more to make now than they did six or seven years ago. You have your ever increasing graphical detail (which requires ever increasing man hours to produce), your fancy effects and things like DX11 being implemented. All of this is time time time, and time is money. Yet you still pay the same for a new game now as you were ten years ago. Factoring in inflation, you're probably paying less in real terms. The rise in popularity of video gaming in general has probably offset this somewhat, but these guys still have to earn a living and safeguard their income. Let's not forget, its their IP, their engine and their assets. You could always vote with your wallet if mod tools upsets you that much, but in a world where video games pander endlessly to console casuals and Call of Duty pro 12 year olds, Total War remains refreshingly deep.
I wrote this post because I think there's a lot of people who just think CA are being douchebags about modding, but nobody seems to be taking a step back and considering CA's perspective. Hopefully I won't be flamed.
Is pretty standard actually, that prevents one from making a mod and selling it.
PROUD TO BE A PESANT. And for the dimwitted, I know how to spell peasant. <== This blue things are links, you click them and magical things (like not ending up like a fool) happens.
Visit my utterly wall of doom here.
Do you wanna play SS 6.4 and take your time while at it? Play with my 12 turns per year here.
Y también quieres jugar Stainless Steel 100% en español? Mira por aca.
The company controls what can be moded and if anything looks good they can claim and use it.
Also the game engine uses software produced by other companies and is sold under licence.
However as most mods are made for the fun or challange of it and not for monetry gain it would not be to hard to throw a few crumbs to the mod fraternity.
not to release mod tools = people cant make mods = more DLC sale. Take the Sengoku Jidai unit pack, for example: if I played single player only, I wouldnt bother about that unit pack, since I were already enjoying my game with similar units made by modders => lost sale for SEGA. Their best bet is to make modding as hard as possible to prevent people creating & distributing mods, even simpler one like unit mods, and they ve been successful so far.
In case of DICE someone mentioned ealier, I actually think its reasonable: BF3 is an online shooter game with rented ranked servers. Making modding possible would open a whole can of worm, which given DICE's current solution (ie. do nothing say nothing!) for rampant hackin, is disastrous for the community.
Last edited by kronpas; April 13, 2012 at 03:05 AM.
Well, I very well might stop buying the games. CA fail to please my demand for historical accuracy and I don´t blaim them for this as long as they give the customers the ability to modify their games. Look at Roma Surrectum or Europa Barbarorum. They are great mods and superior to vanilla Rome in almost every aspect. However, if i could play RS/EB with Shogun 2 graphics, I would throw my money at CA.
The answer to this question is simple: increased longevity for their games/products and some good and cheap PR... As for the reason they don't release such tools (anymore) is that they - rightly or wrongly - believe there is no true profit to be made from it for whatever reasons X. This doctrine might change again some day - time will tell. However their primary purpose have always been to generate profit somehow. And, seemingly, at any cost in later years... ETW is an excellent example of that... A blatantly broken product... Sold anyways and a disaster PR-wise (rightly so)... The forced use of Steam is another... A sham-necessity....
The bottom line is this, CA don't give a rats ass about "you" but they do care about "your" money... Obviously they (or any other commercial enterprise) will never admit as much, but that is the reality of things. Whether it is done in a pleasant way or not, is a secondary matter to profit. Always will be. That said, I don't like it much either, but that is how things are...
What are the benefits of moddingtools for CA?
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Originally Posted by Diglytron
