Comparing MTW to M2TW

[Reimu Hakurei]

Here you can post similar comparisons to mine

I recently started re-playing the original MTW, so I thought I could compare it with M2TW:

Medieval II Total War:
Pros:
-Nice graphics
-Cool sound effects
-I like the fact that now the game is tile-based, instead of region-based
-I like how diplomacy is handled, and that you can give lands, etc.
-I like how heretics appear, and you have to denounce them
-I really love the recruitment system! Now you don't have to worry about slow recruitment anymore!
-I like the fact that the game is relatively easy to mod, unlike the original MTW
-I like the fact that you can discover America
-Good to see some additional factions, like Scotland and Portugal
-I love the fact that your characters finally talk... They are so alive!
Cons:
-The game contains too many historical inaccuracy... why are the Mongols Islamic instead of Pagan? Why are there so many rebel settlements on the map at the beginning? Why is Törcsvár named Bran? And why is Törcsvár even the "capital city" of Transylvania to begin with (Kolozsvár was the center of Transylvania during the Middle Ages)? And Budapest... that city did not even exist up until they were connected by the bridges!
-Rather unrealistic with many factors
-You can't control and train inquisitors anymore
-Music is too Hollywood-ish to my taste... I'd like to hear authentic medieval music on the strategy map (similar to Empire Total War)... battles are a different matter
-Too many fantasy units... like, what is the difference between English/Portuguese Knights and Feudal/Chivalric Knights? And why can you recruit them in the Sahara if you capture it?
-I miss many of the old generic units... like, the fact that every Catholic faction could recruit Crossbowmen, Archers, Men-At-Arms, Sergeants, Urban Militia...
-I miss many of the old buildings, like Spearsmith, Swordsmith, Monastery, etc.
-I hate the fact that you have to choose between City and Castle. Why can't you have both at the same time? It worked that way in real life...

Medieval Total War:
Pros:
-Fairly realistic (at least compared to M2TW)
-Historically accurate (at least compared to M2TW)
-I love the units. There is a great balance between generic units (like crossbowmen, spearmen, archers, men-at-arms, sergeants, militia, feudal knights, etc.) and unique units (like vikings, székelys, gothic knights, gendarmes, longbowmen, highland clansmen, etc.)
-I love the buildings.
-I like the music.
-I like the fact that your generals are not exclusively family members
-I like the fact that you can train and use inquisitors the way it pleases you
-I like the fact that you can give offices and titles away to your generals
-I like the fact that there are civil wars, incest, re-emerging factions etc. I miss all of those so much from M2TW.
-I like the dark atmosphere of the game. Much better than the too-happy atmosphere of M2TW.
Cons:
-Outdated graphics
-Generals and others have no voice...
-Diplomacy too simplified
-Hard to mod
-I don't really like the recruitment system
-Ugly princesses
-Victory conditions are a bit unrealitic

I think that's all

[✠Ikaroqx✠]

M2 is better

[Reimu Hakurei]

M2 is better

I think it's debatable.
Both have their cons and pros.

[Tidybeard]

The biggest plus for me with M2 is that sea-trade is more automated. Use a diplomat to agree trade rights with another faction and any coastal city with a port will automatically trade with them, without the player having to string fleets together. This was such a chore with the original Medieval Total War.

It was a good game though.

[Xerrop]

-Ugly princesses
-Victory conditions are a bit unrealitic

Well I like the portraits of the first MTW. Ugly yes, but fitting to the dark and cruel athmosphere of the game.
And how are the victory conditions unrealistic? I found them much better, because of the Glorious Achievements.

oh and other pros for MTW:
- Strategic agents (Spies, Priests, Diplomats, etc.) could jump from port to port in one turn. You don´t need to send them on an eight (or so) turns epic voyage to reach some other factions (The old risk style is somewhat nearer to the good system since Empire:TW were you can negotiate instant with nearly all factions )
- Emerging factions in the West: Swiss and Burgundians - in the second part you had only the Mongols and Timurids, both disturbing only the eastern parts of the map.
- Three starting dates to choose from - with different starting positions for the factions and the option to start e.g. straight with gunpowder weapons.
- The option of retreating to a friendly province without any battle.
- Assassins could open the gates of castles at night and you conquered them immediately without any fights.
- more decisive battles and also fewer: there are "Cold Wars" possible when the border garrisons seemed equal. And you can make peace more easily - atleast it seems so to me.

[Reimu Hakurei]

And how are the victory conditions unrealistic? I found them much better, because of the Glorious Achievements.

It's nearly impossible to do all the Crusades
But yeah, I always go for Glorious Achivements.

[Xerrop]

Forgot to mention two pros for MTW2:

- the cardinal collegium - even when it could be perfected in an MTW3 ...
- the ingame videos were a superb (reintroduced) feature.
(on a sidenote: too bad, that they have not reintroduced the Throne Room scenes also. )

[Reimu Hakurei]

Forgot to mention two pros for MTW2:

- the cardinal collegium - even when it could be perfected in an MTW3 ...
- the ingame videos were a superb (reintroduced) feature.
(on a sidenote: too bad, that they have not reintroduced the Throne Room scenes also. )

Yes, I totally agree.
I also forgot another pro of MTW2:
- The existence of merchant agents, and the automated sea trade.

Also, forgot four other pros of MTW:
- Rebel provinces start with buildngs, and a decent number of units. Also, rebel factions can have their own names, unlike in M2TW.
- The pope gives you money quite often
- Zeal
- Cool random historical events that actually have effects

[The Despondent Mind]

-Victory conditions are a bit unrealitic

This is the least important thing . I still don't understand why people take those seriously .

For me the lack of MTW atmosphere is the biggest miss in MTW2 .

M2 is better

What an elaborate conclusion .

[Reimu Hakurei]

I have to mention though, that I like MTW best with XL. The vanilla lacks a lot of stuff.
It would be best to make a mod for Kingdoms, that fixes those stuff, but in a different way than Medieval Classic.
I'd prefer to focus on the units and buildings. Like, restoring the balance between generic and unique units. And restoring the good old buildings, like Swordsmith, Spearmaker, Horse farmer, etc.

[tianzong]

Does the difference also not lies a the fact that MTW was more thought out then M2TW?
Also how long did they took to develop MTW and M2TW?
Maybe because they rushed M2TW so much that some things were taken away from it to reach the deadline or is it because they were payed less for MTW then for M2TW were by there creativity went backwards?

I think it is one of these questions that gives the answer wich one is the best. (apart from graphics)

[Avatar]

Bribery was way too easy in the first game. I remember playing as England, sending a diplomat right across to Ryazan or whatever other provinces are in the corner of the map in the first game, and systematically buying Russia a territory at a time.

On the plus side, Viking Invasion was an awesome expansion.

[OlafTheBrave]

What I miss from MTW.
Glorious Achievements. You could win a campaign by playing more or less historically and did not have to take over half the map. I also think the new AI could handle this better.
Moral meant something. High Moral troops would fight almost to the death, and unless you were facing peasants with a bad leader it was no simple matter of routing the opposing army off the field.
Reinforcement System. Remember adjusting your stacks so that you could retreat out of ammo archers and call in new ones? And the epic battles against 3 or 4 full stack armies?
Titles. I really miss these and appointing governors, it made me feel more attached to my campaign.
Historical Generals and other figures. Remember recruiting nothing on a turn but Knights so that your General was a General and not some unit of spearman or even worse Urban Militia?
Choice of starting Era. Since the territories covered for each country were different these campaigns played out much differently.
Emergent Factions. These would really mix things up in Western Europe. I fondly recall a Byzantine campaign that saw the appearance of both the Swiss and the Burgundians.
Civil Wars. Nothing like losing half your empire and Army to get you on the edge of your seat.
Re-Emerging Factions. You had to be careful after eliminating someone that a rebellion didn't put them back in the game, Of course you could also exploit this to put a rivals enemies back in the game also.

What I like about MTW2.
I prefer the campaign map over the risk map.
I really like the Merchants.
I also actually like the Diplomatic system, you just need to understand it for it to be useful.
I like the battlemaps that match the strategic map as opposed to the randomly selected by major terrain type.
I like the Heretics and frying them.
I like the appearance of the New World.
I like the guilds and scheming to get them in the City I want them in.
I like the division between City and Castle.

[Gazz]

Pros of M2TW:

Stainless Steel and TATW.

[jameseagle15]

cons for medieval 2 total war:
-I can't change faction heir.
-My armies sometimes completely ignore me when fielding an order.
-I want my Allies not to backstab me as often and actually are honorable with their alliances.

Haven't played MTW.

[branimir]

For me in MTW2 are too few cities and castles on the map, especially in the Middle East. MTW has a great chess game concept where you would simply put the figures in the province you want to attack, but while I was playing MTW2 I would spend about 5 turns before reaching my target settlement. Sometimes I even forgot that I had an army in some regions.

[Reimu Hakurei]

I still think that the biggest problem in M2TW is the fact that there are not enough generic units (Archers, Crossbowmen, Feudal Men at Arms, Chivalric Men at Arms, Urban Militia, etc.), the starting positions are historically inaccurate, and off course, the lack of the Dark Medieval atmosphere.

[SonofaBooyah]

I've got to admit, if MTW had modern day graphics, gameplay, and a better diplomatic system (like ETW) it would be a much better game than M2TW.

[Reimu Hakurei]

I've got to admit, if MTW had modern day graphics, gameplay, and a better diplomatic system (like ETW) it would be a much better game than M2TW.

Agreed.

[King William the Conqueror]

I think you are wrong!