phalanx

[prviper720]

hey, i've done a little work on the phalanx because before i said i would.. so here is what i have done: i've made the phalanx use the "short_pike" attribute in export_descr_unit because in RTW 1.5 and BI 1.6, they can run with that and i think it looks a lot like the pictures Spirit of Rob showed me. i edited all the animations for the fs_spearman skeleton so that it uses overhand animations. if its appropriate for this mod (and time period), then i can make it into another skeleton (like fs_overhand or something) and send the files. heres the pics:








(one thing i like about this one is that it looks "chaotic" like it would have been in real life, not the PERFECT spear wall of the vanilla phalanx..)

let me know what you think

[Zarax]

One question: have you tried to charge them frontally with a cavalry unit? One problem the short pike phalanx seemed to have (something that shield was hasn't) is that it can't absorbe charges better that normal formation...

[prviper720]

hmm well no, i havent done a lot of testing, that was the only battle i did and it was really just for the screenshots.. the only thing is that i cant test with the shield wall just yet because i dont have BI right now, i will have to download it again (haha...). another thing to deal with the cavalry thing.. in export_descr_unit, edit the mount_effect line so that they have like + x amount of damage versus cavalry... just an idea.

[Zarax]

hmm well no, i havent done a lot of testing, that was the only battle i did and it was really just for the screenshots.. the only thing is that i cant test with the shield wall just yet because i dont have BI right now, i will have to download it again (haha...). another thing to deal with the cavalry thing.. in export_descr_unit, edit the mount_effect line so that they have like + x amount of damage versus cavalry... just an idea.

The problem isn't the cavalry effect, it's the fact that I could frontally charge with a cav unit and go through the ranks the same way as a normal (non phalanx) unit...

[Snevets]

Now the short pikes are their own model right? Because I see that the pikes are not actually in the hands of the units but float above them.

[prviper720]

Now the short pikes are their own model right? Because I see that the pikes are not actually in the hands of the units but float above them.

where do you see that??

The problem isn't the cavalry effect, it's the fact that I could frontally charge with a cav unit and go through the ranks the same way as a normal (non phalanx) unit...

well thats true.. which is a shame since i think it "looks" really good with the spears help upwards in the back ranks which is historically accurate.. i would be testing with the sheildwall too, but as i said before i dont have it so i cant. but once i get it, i will def post some pics with it.

[Zarax]

Well, basically you just modded a skeleton animation to obtain it, right?
In that case I think that using shield will definitely improve things, in XGM we're using it with signifierOne's overhand animation and looks quite good...

[prviper720]

yes, i did just edit the animation in 3ds max, importing the .cas, then importing apporpriate anims... etc, i have never actually played bi, so i dont really know how the sheild wall performs in game. i am eager to play with these anims with the sheild wall formation

[Zarax]

In case you install BI I suggest you to try XGM and use it for your tests, our unit roster already includes a few good potential candidates and should make your job easier...
Alternatively, if you need help I might be able to give an hand with text files or testing, I would really like to see a promising mod like hegemonia finally getting released...

[prviper720]

thanks for the offer, its def worth getting hegemonia out faster. first i will have to... "aquire" BI (hahah), then i'll def try out XGM...

[Galloper]

prviper720

In fact you don
't need whole BI addon to run with shield wall formation. You need get only BI exe file and you can run your RTW campaign with shield wall, shiltrom etc.
Nice work on the phalanx, trying to make same thing

[Snevets]

Try seeing if making them 'highly_trained' causes a more organized formation.

[Wolfshead]

Hmmm, in the extended Greek mod hoplites also used the overhand formation. I just gave them the phalanx formation ability and it looked the same as this... Dunno if it's more chaotic, I think not.

[tragikal]

I don't think that this change is appropriate for greek factions. Greek armies had a specific way of fighting and formation was always solid and tight. I can't imagine spartans, athenians or thebans fighting like this they trained very very hard to accomplish a perfect formation

[Matty_P]

...well, the limits of the engine's capabilities should be taken into consideration...

i think it looks nice. if it could be editted to allow the line to hold under a cav charge it'd be sweet, imo.

but i'm not in anyway affiliated with this mod

[Divinus Arma]

Does Hegemonia plan on having a running phalanx? And what is the historical accuracy of this?


(Btw: That looks very nice prviper720)

[Kralizec]

Hoplites should charge, pikemen surely not.

The short_pike trick the original poster mentions is used in RTRP. No range advantage, the enemy is not kept away by spearpoint. The advantage is that the formation will stay tightly packed even outside of guardmode.
The downside: no secondary weapon.

I think that this formation + overhand weapon is perfect, as close as RTW can get to accurately depicting hoplites.

[k_raso]

Hi.

This may be a good phalanx example... I`m playing it with Darthmod, and I like it a lot...

I presume you have tried this solution, have you discarded it,or are you still considering it?








Soooo, what do you think?

[paulus]

The latter system doesn't do it for me. That first one looked quite nice, except for the spears riding atop their knuckles. I also think it'd be great if the highly trained attribute would affect how cohesive the formation would be. Thucydides and Xenophon both noted how the hoplite formation could lose cohesion in the charge, so it'd be nice if that happened a little bit.

[Snevets]

Yep, and also that the ability to keep their cohesion was the greatest advantage hoplite training could offer- hence the spartan training.