Thia made me laugh, AI used a Sun Tzu tactic on me

**Jasper9080** · April 04, 2012, 08:13 AM

Playing as Rome I was ambushed by a Free People army. I had a full stack of around 1100 and they had around 700. I had 4 HC units that were bashing them from behind when they suddenly turned tail, not routing, and headed for the border. When I realised the main force was retreating I grouped all my units together, sent them after them and sped up to 3x thinking it was a done deal. To my horror right when my HC got to the rear of the retreating force the entire FP force turned around and began slaughtering my HC and by that time the rest of my force had caught up and were also getting slaughtered. I forfeited the battle before they were wiped out taking heavy losses.

The Sun Tzu tactic in question goes something like this,

Feign disorder, draw them in, then annihilate them.

**Sertorio** · April 04, 2012, 08:16 AM

Comiting cavalry to uncomited infantry tends to do that.

**ur-Lord Tedric** · April 04, 2012, 08:21 AM

Double- or Triple-Speed can seriously speed up the approach march...

But thereafter it's back to Normal mode - and I still can't keep an eye on every unit!

**Diocle** · April 04, 2012, 12:02 PM

this is the old Byzantine (but not only...) tactic of the feigned fly.
It is very good if AI uses this tactic, anyway I had already noticed it before not only in RSII.

**CTD_or_Bust** · April 04, 2012, 12:08 PM

You'll find that the Byzantine Empire does not, in fact, predate Sun Tzu. However on point- it is neither. The ai IS in fact retreating in an ordered fashion (good for it) and you're coming around, trying to stab people in the back.

For shame!
(No seriously if you're going to do that just turn off x3 and disengage the cav the moment the unit turns. You'll be able to get kills on the charge then be able to stop before pikes can be brought around. Other units have a shorter arming period but its still possible)

**Sertorio** · April 04, 2012, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by CTD_or_Bust

You'll find that the Byzantine Empire does not, in fact, predate Sun Tzu. However on point- it is neither. The ai IS in fact retreating in an ordered fashion (good for it) and you're coming around, trying to stab people in the back.

Yes they will either rout, or turn around and face you and that is bye-bye cavalry. retreat, wait they turn back again( they will), and charge again, rinse and repeat.

**Jasper9080** · April 04, 2012, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by CTD_or_Bust

You'll find that the Byzantine Empire does not, in fact, predate Sun Tzu. However on point- it is neither. The ai IS in fact retreating in an ordered fashion (good for it) and you're coming around, trying to stab people in the back.

For shame!
(No seriously if you're going to do that just turn off x3 and disengage the cav the moment the unit turns. You'll be able to get kills on the charge then be able to stop before pikes can be brought around. Other units have a shorter arming period but its still possible)

Yep. lesson learned. I just assumed that the rear most unit would rout when 4 HC units crashed into it NOT turn around along with the rest of their army

**Sertorio** · April 04, 2012, 01:21 PM

I get your point, but sometimes charging with several HC units is worse than micromanaging each HC unit one by one. Personaly i tend not to use more than 1/2 units in the same charge.

**First Citizen Gallienus** · April 04, 2012, 01:24 PM

That happens with just about all retreating armies in the game. If there's a unit that's relatively unscathed, and you send a unit after them, they will fight back until you stop fighting. Once you pull back, they return to running away from the battlefield.

**Diocle** · April 04, 2012, 02:40 PM

I understand all, but I can assure that the Byzantines used this old tactic! (they probably learned it by Huns or other eastern Barbarians anyway they did use that tactic, if you want, I'll quote some of the battles in which the Byzantines used feingned flight)
Gallienus described very well waht happens in game, and at least for me, this is not new! I already saw the AI performing exactly the same tactic in many other Mods! (Exemple IBDF Mods! but also others!)

**Pendragon22** · April 04, 2012, 03:34 PM

haha yeah I've screwed myself over turning up the speed during battles, general goes charging off into some spearmen or the like

**Ferdiad** · April 04, 2012, 04:24 PM

Just use Hotkeys for the speed. Ctrl+T is your friend.

**CTD_or_Bust** · April 05, 2012, 02:13 AM

RTW was part of the beautiful era where you could manually assign hotkeys (grumble grumble empire grumple) and just pop onto faster. I play almost all my battles on that unless things go drastically to the dog house.

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So much for those 3 well phrased paragraphs on how this thread is assigning anthropomorphic traits to a battle ai.

**RafoutRoud** · April 05, 2012, 06:40 AM

I have yet to see any unit withstand a cappadocian cavalryman , fresh or exhausted. What sort of HC did you throw into the inf>>>?

**Jasper9080** · April 05, 2012, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by RafoutRoud

I have yet to see any unit withstand a cappadocian cavalryman , fresh or exhausted. What sort of HC did you throw into the inf>>>?

I'll check and get back to you. I know its Pre-Marion though.

**century x** · April 05, 2012, 11:22 AM

Wow, the AI getting the upper hand. What a rare moment

**Ferdiad** · April 05, 2012, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by century x

Wow, the AI getting the upper hand. What a rare moment

I bookmarked this thread for future reference.

**Sertorio** · April 05, 2012, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by RafoutRoud

I have yet to see any unit withstand a cappadocian cavalryman , fresh or exhausted. What sort of HC did you throw into the inf>>>?

Rome is not known by the excelence of the cavalryman. Pre-marian i can only remember the light equites, the medium latin cavalry and campania cavalry. Not the finest of cavalry in RS.