1:1 comparison between Vanilla and FOTS DX11 graphics

[A Barbarian]

With a complete backup of my S2 game directory from before the FOTS update I made some high-res videos from the benchmark sequence with ultra game settings.

Here are a number of screenshots from the FOTS engine, the S2 engine and the S2 engine with 4xSSAA.

Note: The differences in appearance of some characters comes from the random assignment of different outfits in the engine!

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Settings used for the screenshots (for the 3rd screenshots I used 4xMSAA + SSAA override from the AMD CCC application):

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New night + rain custom battle shots (FOTS / Vanilla)

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[Jedi]

The last picture with the 1:1 closeup avatar comparison is the most noticeable picture for people to realise there has been a visual downgrade with the huge FOTS patch.Being honest and going by the general feel of the forum most users dont even notice it when its presented before thier faces.I circled one picture with faceless men and someone looked right at it and told me his ultra mode was fine I have a beast of a screenshot i will get off steam later which shows how bad FOTS draw distance truely is.I have a full unit in full on sprite mode and i am about 60 range from thier line!!

There are some pictures like a few i will attach that really show how much things look wrong with the new color and gloss missing.Your screenshots especially the last one clearly show that even up close the Hi-res models seem to be missing? When are are that close to the avatar what else can destroy such detail? Its not lod so you highlighted another issue that is seperate from lod which is missing hi-res models.

Check out the onna bushi for instance.Example of pre patch and post patch below.Notice how the makeup and faces are worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3cn...feature=plcp&c
http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...n-or-a-mistake


Also check out my glowing avatar for instance.His chin strap glows in the dark.I have included one picture(the far right) which is from before the FOTS patch.Notice the difference in color?


PS i cant wait to get my hands on that backup!!

[Erwin Rommel]

Old = realistic and immersive. Weapons glint in the sun and armor gives off that metallic sheen

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With the current one. NOT. The blades look like dull metal colored clubs and the armor looks more like leather and its like the whole unit is under constant shade when its not that. I mean even Ishida Mitsunari and Kobayakawa Hideaki look all like under shade but no trees in sight.

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[Colonel Dax]

Apparently I'm in the minority here, but I prefer the new visuals over the old.

I actually felt compelled to mod pre-patch Shogun 2 to remove much of the gloss.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Eh, I don't mind. Still looks fine to me.

Then again, I still prefer M2TW over Shogun, so Im not the one to complain about graphics...

[Totalheadache]

Eh, I don't mind. Still looks fine to me.

Then again, I still prefer M2TW over Shogun, so Im not the one to complain about graphics...

well maybe you havent invested a fair amount of money into your rig...

was thinking we should have our rigs listed in our sigs might perhaps reduce the arguements between the "graphics are worse" or "i dont care" camps.

i mean people who are using laptops etc or xp setups arent really the best judges of a technical nature.

p.s no offense to those people but unless you whack on some lvls of aa and af then graphics discussions are somewhat irrelevant for you.

+rep for taking the time to post the thread op.

you can fool some people sometimes but you cant fool all the people all the time

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

well maybe you havent invested a fair amount of money into your rig...

was thinking we should have our rigs listed in our sigs might perhaps reduce the arguements between the "graphics are worse" or "i dont care" camps.

i mean people who are using laptops etc or xp setups arent really the best judges of a technical nature.

p.s no offense to those people but unless you whack on some lvls of aa and af then graphics discussions are somewhat irrelevant for you.

+rep for taking the time to post the thread op.

you can fool some people sometimes but you cant fool all the people all the time

Nah, I run everything on ultra.

But I just like the way it looks now.




Personally, for me, I'm glad it's gone. I didn't really like it. I get that you guys are upset, but you should really stop insulting people for their opinions.

Perhaps I should call you all selfish because you're trying to get the gloss put back in, when we don't want it.

Honestly, the debug camara debate was a little bitty thing, There were only a few people even debating it.

And the gloss "debate" is even smaller.


I support CA's choice on this matter. Now I simply await the patch that fixes all the graphical bugs.

[Confucius]

Well, if CA is going to pull something like this, then, they should:

1) Give people the CHOICE to choose from this crappy graphics in the options menu to have better performance, or for the people who wants the status quo, they can keep their original graphics.

2) Nowhere has CA said anything about downgrading graphics to accommodate for whatever. Nowhere on the patch notes, and I have read the patch notes for the 32nd time already! And, yet they pull this cr*p on us as a surprise present?

[SonOfCrusader76]

Well, if CA is going to pull something like this, then, they should:

1) Give people the CHOICE to choose from this crappy graphics in the options menu to have better performance, or for the people who wants the status quo, they can keep their original graphics.

2) Nowhere has CA said anything about downgrading graphics to accommodate for whatever. Nowhere on the patch notes, and I have read the patch notes for the 32nd time already! And, yet they pull this cr*p on us as a surprise present?

Ah - this must explain why Shogun 2 seems to be running better for me now. I'm 100% with you, I'm all for options - people should have the option to keep the previous graphics if they're not having any performance problems!

[A Barbarian]

I posted the same thread on the official TW forums so someone from CA will certainly have a look.

Regarding different textures for soldiers, you have to be careful because there are always at least 2 sets of armor and face textures for one group of soldiers and individual soldiers get one of it assigned randomly. For a fair comparison you have to find 2 soldiers with the same armor set.

I also don't really see a difference in the 'level of detail rendering' like the faces of soldiers in the 2nd and 3rd row. Besides the removal of the unit gloss, there is a big difference in the rendering of the sky, fog and HDR parts in general though.

You can argue about the gloss, but I certainly want back the more dramatic weather and highlights (and fixed MSAA ofc).

[Confucius]

there is a big difference in the rendering of the sky, fog and HDR parts in general though.

Well, HDR is actually quite an important graphical feature AFAIK in terms of realism. Any people here who claim themselves to be computer graphic specialist or artist should know the importance of HDR in PC gaming.

am i right in thinking CA has changed the way you can zoom in on your units? dunno i can do it but sometimes i have to pan the camera around...maybe am wrong.

they wouldnt be trying to cover up those glitchey faces?

Actually, you just reminded me. In addition to graphical down graded, I also experience camera pan lag now. Do you notice this? hehe so much for the improve performance while decreasing graphics feature by CA.

[Totalheadache]

am i right in thinking CA has changed the way you can zoom in on your units? dunno i can do it but sometimes i have to pan the camera around...maybe am wrong.

they wouldnt be trying to cover up those glitchey faces?

[A Barbarian]

Hmmm, maybe in the evening I will do a capture with HDR off with the vanilla engine. That could be interesting. I can't really say which parts would be affected by that.

Since I can't see a difference in the unit detail I have to assume that the graphics changes
a) have been made because of artistic consideration. Mechanized warfare just isn't as romantic and glorious as medieval fights.
(Not that medieval warfare actually was romantic but that's the common basic view nowadays)
b) are simply a bug

[CraigTW]

Thanks chaps. QA are looking into this.

[Confucius]

Not that medieval warfare actually was romantic but that's the common basic view nowadays)

Yeah, some people do have that view towards medieval warfare. But, for me, I always viewed medieval warfare as an "honour" thing, when compared to the warfare we see today. Viewing it as "romantic" just feel "odd" to me.

Thanks chaps. QA are looking into this.

Thank You Craig! We will be awaiting your feedback regarding this issue.

Please use the multi quote function to select several posts for quoting - the button between reply and quote

[CraigTW]

Incidentally, I doubt we'll reintroduce the gloss element. It was a conscious decision to remove it, not a bug. But we'll look into issues regarding draw distance, missing textures, DOF and HDR issues if they're present.

[Confucius]

Incidentally, I doubt we'll reintroduce the gloss element. It was a concious decision to remove it, not a bug. But we'll look into issues regarding draw distance, missing textures, DOF and HDR issues if they're present.

Will you give us the choice to choose between gloss or no gloss in the option menu then?

TO Gigantus: Yes, its called slow internet connection, and not intentional, Thank You very much.

[Humble Warrior]

Incidentally, I doubt we'll reintroduce the gloss element. It was a conscious decision to remove it, not a bug. But we'll look into issues regarding draw distance, missing textures, DOF and HDR issues if they're present.

Thanks for the clarification. The varnish gloss was the only graphic thing that bugged me ever since the release. I think without it makes the game look much more realistic, though maybe you removed it to save on framerate as well?

Whatever. I like it.

[Jedi]

Incidentally, I doubt we'll reintroduce the gloss element. It was a conscious decision to remove it, not a bug. But we'll look into issues regarding draw distance, missing textures, DOF and HDR issues if they're present.

Firstly Thankyou for responding to our concerns as some of us are upset over losing the game we loved.

But our efforts did not go unseen! Though it was fustrating and i believe there are still around ten pages in my bookmarks of threads where people have complained.There are issues ranging from Onna bushi faces to the way my avatar glows an absurdly bright red which i believe is due to missing the gloss to tone down the color.

I still cant agree with the decision to remove gloss though as its greatly effects the coloring of units even in FOTS and you can clearly see this on black or dark colored uniforms as they have no fine detail due to the extreme color/gamma changes gloss removal introduced.I mean the original shogun 2 was advertised to me as with gloss so i dont see how you can legally just take it away from me.I want the game i was sold and i cant get access to anymore.You said once you aim for years of enjoyment from totalwar yet why go and remove a feature that was modded anyways? I like the urushi gloss its one of the reasons i loved japanese armor.Could you show me the threads where you based your decision to remove it from? There are just as many people out there i bet who do like gloss so why dont you just add no gloss as an option? You can do this as you easily took it away before.


So in summary if you want to take the conscious decision to remove gloss for Fall of the samurai then so be it but you need to return the base shogun 2 graphics as to how you advertised it and sold it.There is simply no way i can get it back unless you provide me with a backup of the game before the FOTS patch.If you are willing to do this then i can arrange for courier or i can just download it if you like.

Again here is the screenshot showing how much not having gloss makes my avatar have extreme colors and fake looking armor.Its not realistic at all it looks awful.I just wish that if things like this are not a bug then why are they not included in the patch notes?

[Huberto]

Incidentally, I doubt we'll reintroduce the gloss element. It was a conscious decision to remove it, not a bug. But we'll look into issues regarding draw distance, missing textures, DOF and HDR issues if they're present.

Please do. I am definitely noticing them. +1 to OP.