Economy: what to/not to build

[Hamilicar]

I have noticed that ports and roads have a negative tax attributed with them and a trade increase bonus also. I know that the tax decrease is for the cost of maintaining them. Is it better to build them for the increased trade or not to because of the tax decreases?

[CTD_or_Bust]

It's always better to build roads. Make a save and use process_cq "settlement_name" (without quotations) to see the income decease yourself. It won't be significant. Yes, there will be a loss but always always build roads. The old saying that they are the arteries of an empire is very true. The faster you can get an agent or units to where they need to be then the less units you will need overall.

Example: Let's say I had Iberia and Gaul completely under my control. The cities are happy enough not to revolt but free peoples still show up from time to time. If I had no roads then I would need two separate legions to handle each area. If I had fully upgraded roads then I would only need one. That's at least 10,000g a turn difference!

That's just the simplest example. A more common problem is you will have only some cities that can produce troops and only a few will be near borders with hostile factions. What's the point in making a legion in all the infrastructure you've developed elsewhere during your conquest of that area if it will take 9 turns to get to where you need to go? Will the reason you built the legion even still be there?

Roads are essential. The other buildings are very discretionary. On one hand, all tax increasing structures (except Tax 1, Tax 2 and so on) are no brainers. Build them everywhere. Even the negative public health from larger mines can be negated by population controls.

Other buildings are a lot more specialized. Are you going to be building troops at that settlement? Get a temple of Vulcan for the +1 boost. Does the settlement have corruption? Build an academy and temple of Minerva. Is the settlement really unhappy? Get those temples of Juno and Apollo to please everyone.

Blacksmiths-Large Foundries increase tax income and allow you to upgrade units even if they can't be recruited in that particular province. Always get those buildings. It's a win win. Wells are almost always great boosts to public order. Army Supply is required to build most units (aside from the local color).

It's almost always intuitive. Don't worry too much about buildings that reduce tax. Once you conquer your first area (Gaul, Iberia, Greece whatever) you'll probably never be strapped for cash again.

[Velico]

It's best to alternate trade increase buildings and tax increase. Tax increase buildings are short-term, whereas trade is long-term. So a balance between the two will insure positive, steady growth. I usually focus on building my empire early on, and building trade structures so that their trade is constantly going up from the very start. If you build only tax buildings, you will not be able to expand your empire very fast and it can sometimes lead to poor economies with your generals/leader. Having high trade in your core territories is pretty much necessity. You'll notice that trade goes up almost every turn with a governor present, and although it's small at first, when it develops and you add more trade buildings it skyrockets.

Well, don't build roads on islands with only one settlement...


(unless it actually does help, I have never tried because I thought it was stupid.

It still helps because it increases trade, even though it doesn't connect to another territory. If you have a port, roads definitely help that region. I think it's a baseline percentage that is set, then incrementally increases as the city develops, but I'm not quite sure on the mechanics of it.

[Ferdiad]

It's best to alternate trade increase buildings and tax increase. Tax increase buildings are short-term, whereas trade is long-term. So a balance between the two will insure positive, steady growth. I usually focus on building my empire early on, and building trade structures so that their trade is constantly going up from the very start. If you build only tax buildings, you will not be able to expand your empire very fast and it can sometimes lead to poor economies with your generals/leader. Having high trade in your core territories is pretty much necessity. You'll notice that trade goes up almost every turn with a governor present, and although it's small at first, when it develops and you add more trade buildings it skyrockets.




It still helps because it increases trade, even though it doesn't connect to another territory. If you have a port, roads definitely help that region. I think it's a baseline percentage that is set, then incrementally increases as the city develops, but I'm not quite sure on the mechanics of it.

No not really, Tax>Everything in RS II.

[Smerka]

No not really, Tax>Everything in RS II.

Have to say I agree with Ferdiad. Tax just makes more money for me. I always go the Tax until public order drops then public order.

[Hamilicar]

Thanks for the quick reply. I will make sure to build them now... and I am not the Romans but I am sure the same applies to my Spartan campaign (I went straight to them). Thanks again

[ricandy144]

Thanks for the quick reply. I will make sure to build them now... and I am not the Romans but I am sure the same applies to my Spartan campaign (I went straight to them). Thanks again

After Hannibal and first rebel, you may choose to build Farmland, then increase pop facilities, then lower tax rate and regain tax by Tax I,II,III,IV. That way keep your city in order also. As long as you start expanding your border vast, you will want to have good road to keep everything undercontrol and trade.

[TheDarkKnight]

Well, don't build roads on islands with only one settlement...


(unless it actually does help, I have never tried because I thought it was stupid.

[Hamilicar]

Well, don't build roads on islands with only one settlement...


(unless it actually does help, I have never tried because I thought it was stupid.

I think your right it sounds logical

[CTD_or_Bust]

lol yeah don't build roads on islands. why didn't I include that

[Hamilicar]

thanks guys for the replys. from what i am getting roads are a good thing especially when you are becoming a large empire

[Ferdiad]

Ofc, they speed up the movement of armys and help you make more money.

[TheDarkKnight]

Ofc, they speed up the movement of armys and help you make more money.

True, but on a small island where you can go around it 3 times in one turn it wouldn't matter unless you wanted to do it a fourth time

[Ferdiad]

True, but on a small island where you can go around it 3 times in one turn it wouldn't matter unless you wanted to do it a fourth time

I build roads everywhere, no exceptions.

[The Forgotten]

i always try to have every province built up to at least a paved road if i can get them that high although im not sure if barbarians can...

[CTD_or_Bust]

Even an island can benefit from a road yah but I believe it is better to put them off until later unlike normal provinces. My priorities are:
1 Make province happy enough that it doesn't revolt,
2 add roads,
3 add walls if high risk area,
4 make province a coinpurse or a sword factory,
5 then build whatever.

That is until I hit the income cap. Right now I'm theoretically making like 300k or so per turn so I'm spamming out units every turn (one turn campaign) and prioritizing military infrastructure over economic. But gotta have my roads

[RafoutRoud]

If you are constantly finding your tax revenue far outstrips your trade income = you're doing it wrong, very wrong. If you build the correct buildings and have a sizable empire, your trade and tax will be balanced and both will of course be through the roof.

However, in terms of the early game, sure....the small 10%/20% tax temple can't be matched.

And yeah, build roads everywhere, or else.

[Ferdiad]

If you are constantly finding your tax revenue far outstrips your trade income = you're doing it wrong, very wrong. If you build the correct buildings and have a sizable empire, your trade and tax will be balanced and both will of course be through the roof.

However, in terms of the early game, sure....the small 10%/20% tax temple can't be matched.

And yeah, build roads everywhere, or else.

You do realise the whole economic system is designed about Tax right? Tax should form the core part of your income.

[RafoutRoud]

You do realise the whole economic system is designed about Tax right? Tax should form the core part of your income.

That's obvious. My point, even though there is a very strong tax focus in the early game , if you properly attend to your economy via trade it has the potential to make as much as your tax income per turn.

[dvk901]

You do realise the whole economic system is designed about Tax right? Tax should form the core part of your income.

Well, you've mentioned this several times, and I have to say that it is correct 'in part'. Yes, RS2 income is based on taxes...or more specifically, the application of positive or negative tax bonuses. But, the 'ability' to tax is actually based on a 'true' economic model....maybe not the best or the most correct...but on a semi-valid model, anyway.

To explain this, first you have to understand that RTW really has no 'economy', so to speak. In it's native form (Vanilla) it has a bunch of trade bonuses that continually boost income which, on a graph, would start at '0' and curve upwards 'ad infinitum' until it's just 'straight up'. For that reason there is little you can do to control anything other than a script that constantly takes away money in increasingly larger sums...because at some point, what you rake in is more than scripts can even take away. This was a matter of disillusionment for me in my campaigns, because always, always there was a point reached where they WAS no point anymore....I had so much money it was stupid and I could just buy the map if I pleased. And it doesn't matter if it's 1-turn or 0-turn, eventually this starts to happen.

I tried to correct this in RS1.6, but never accomplished it because I didn't know at the time that a 'negative' trade bonus doesn't do anything. So all the negative trade bonuses I tried to use weren't taking anything away, and was left with the same old same old problem...cascading cash.

Well, a fellow named 'Gotthard'...now gone for some time from the Forum, and myself got into brainstorming how to 'fix' this inherent RTW problem, which at it's roots ignores a very central fact about 'trade'. Trade is what makes producers and buyers and resellers the money. The farmer grows grain, he sells it to a broker, the broker to a market, and the market to the end user. That is trade, and you'll note that nowhere in there does it say that the government had any say in any of that, nor did it make any money...per se. Where the government makes it's money is in taxes on what the farmer sold the grain for, what the broker sold it for, and what the market sold it for. In the end, the guy on the bottom pays it all. So the RTW model of factions making a boatload of money off an ever expanding trade base 'just because of the trade', is way off the mark.

What we attempted to do was create a more realistic model using 'Zones of Economic Influence', taxes (bonuses that are positive) and expenses for infrastructure maintenance (tax bonuses that are negative). Trade bonuses in this model become rare and restricted to certain buildings, and they are different for every faction.

Using Carthage as an example for this, the first step is to provide a rather large tax bonus in the major or capital city. This logically represents the city that is raking in the bulk of the taxes inevitably from all over their empire. The second step is to create a Zone of Influence, which in carthage's case would be all of the settlements it holds at game start. In these settlements markets and ports and whatever have what you call the 'normal' incremented trade bonuses that Vanilla had in it's buildings. For this reason, when you start a campaign...yes, you are raking in the cash, and people say: "Whoa! Way too much money!" But that's because you are at that time operating in your own back yard.

Then, the third part of the model kicks in.....as you expand, all the trade bonuses in settlement "X" that you just took outside your 'Zone of Influence' disappear. The market in settlement 'X' nets you nothing but a tax bonus. The reason for that is that you did not build that building, and the trade is not 'technically' (as in reality) yours. You can only TAX it. The more you expand, the more you run into this issue, and your finances start to drop. So when you hold 60 settlements in RS2, you might take in 60,000 denari (if that), whereas in Vanilla you might take in 500,000 or some ridiculous number.

The reason the income drops...no matter how viciously you tax people, is because the 'Trade Base' is still restricted to your own home territories, and the few taxes you can get out of all the others. You can tax the crap out of everyone, and you'll still only get so much out of a certain 'base' of tax payers. And, if you go on a big spending spree because you've built up a good sum of money...thinking it will get replaced next turn...you might get an ugly surprise that I've seen happen a few times. You go deep into the red. That's because you spent more than you could take in, and it will take a few years to recover. It's all sorta like the U.S. government...spending more than it can take in and running up a huge deficit.
(Jerks!)

Anyway, it isn't perfect, but it's a lot better than before. For a real challenge, never raise taxes anywhere above 'High' (for which this system was designed), and you'll see a much better 'economic challenge' in the game as well.