Canadian torture of terror suspects...

[danzig]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968793972154

Well either a) no country is immune from baseless accusations of torture or b) everyone talks the talk but when it comes to it engage in these acts when it comes to terrorist suspects.

[Hub'ite]

Eh their not America no one will care. If America would have done that it would be a world outcry. If they want to torture terrorists its fine by me.

[danzig]

Eh their not America no one will care. If America would have done that it would be a world outcry.

Well just for the record I dont believe the story, I think its like alot of terrorist suspect claims...not much truth to it. My post is more along the lines of the US doesnt live within a vaccum that this, the assistences/cooperation by European nations with CIA flights etc that everyone has their hands dirty in this war on terror whether from actual acts or simply by accusations such as this. The truth rarely matters unfortunately in the this whole mess.

[Mr.Flint]

Well just for the record I dont believe the story, I think its like alot of terrorist suspect claims...not much truth to it. My post is more along the lines of the US doesnt live within a vaccum that this, the assistences/cooperation by European nations with CIA flights etc that everyone has their hands dirty in this war on terror whether from actual acts or simply by accusations such as this. The truth rarely matters unfortunately in the this whole mess.

You see the point is, that if a muslim criminal goes to prison then he is "tortured" there, if a non-muslim criminal goes to jail, then its ok, a normal procedure...

[Blaven]

You see the point is, that if a muslim criminal goes to prison then he is "tortured" there, if a non-muslim criminal goes to jail, then its ok, a normal procedure...

On a similar note: I remember a year ago when I was listening to the radio and they were discussing torture at Gitmo. Except the "torture" was that Qu'rans were getting flushed down the toilet. No bodily harm was being done to them whatsoever.

I can only imagine what terroists would've thought if, I don't know, they actually got their asses beat.

[bdh]

Twenty-year-old terror suspect Zakaria Amara was beaten by a guard after he giggled because he felt ticklish while being searched, alleged Kolinsky, who said the guard pinned his client to the ground, drilled his knuckle into the man's cheek and said, "Is this funny?"

That is the alleged beating? By definition a beating is repeated and prolonged to a certain extent. That seems more like 'roughness' than beating. What exactly do they mean by drilled? Do they mean held against with force or punched? The rest of the allegations are more along the lines of uncomfortable rather than torture. I find it hard to beleive that Canada has a policy of torture.

[bigfootedfred]

That is the alleged beating? By definition a beating is repeated and prolonged to a certain extent. That seems more like 'roughness' than beating. What exactly do they mean by drilled? Do they mean held against with force or punched? The rest of the allegations are more along the lines of uncomfortable rather than torture. I find it hard to beleive that Canada has a policy of torture.

your forgeting that this is canada.
'Rough treatment' to us, is probably a severe beating to canadians

[Ahlerich]

BS ...prisoners have been tortured and commited suicide...the prisoners didnt even have trials...
of course you guys can refuse to believe it, whatever. doesnt matter anyways because many americans wouldnd even care if they were sure all is true about the tortures.
you are just a hopeless ignorantnation and there is no cure in sight.

thats all i have to add. i cannot stand this ignorance anymore. it is obvious that the land of the free only cares about the freedom of a few. you are just an easy controllable country because of this ignorance. a president can basically do whatever he likes in your country..as long as he drops a few shallow phrases about god bless america and fight for freedom will love him and cheer for him.
no you guys can go on and make fun about the lefty journalist criminal terrorists anti american world that still bothers to be disturbed by torture and abuse.

i didnt read this canadian article it doesnt matter..if they tortured or mistreated prisoners i know that the canadian public at least cares..if it is just a media story that is blown out of proportion, ok. but that is no excuse for the torture and abuse that is proven and not blown out of proportion.
but anyways..enjoy misusing it for your purposes...and live your dream of the great american nation that does nothing wrong and all only for the best of their people. believe that, zombies

[Blaven]

BS ...prisoners have been tortured and commited suicide...the prisoners didnt even have trials...
of course you guys can refuse to believe it, whatever. doesnt matter anyways because many americans wouldnd even care if they were sure all is true about the tortures.
you are just a hopeless ignorantnation and there is no cure in sight.

Wow, we didn't even hit the tenth post yet.

The US has done shady things, no doubt. But if you considering flushing a book down the toilet as torture, then there is something wrong with you.

[danzig]

BS ...prisoners have been tortured and commited suicide...the prisoners didnt even have trials...
of course you guys can refuse to believe it, whatever. doesnt matter anyways because many americans wouldnd even care if they were sure all is true about the tortures.
you are just a hopeless ignorantnation and there is no cure in sight.

thats all i have to add. i cannot stand this ignorance anymore. it is obvious that the land of the free only cares about the freedom of a few. you are just an easy controllable country because of this ignorance. a president can basically do whatever he likes in your country..as long as he drops a few shallow phrases about god bless america and fight for freedom will love him and cheer for him.
no you guys can go on and make fun about the lefty journalist criminal terrorists anti american world that still bothers to be disturbed by torture and abuse.

i didnt read this canadian article it doesnt matter..if they tortured or mistreated prisoners i know that the canadian public at least cares..if it is just a media story that is blown out of proportion, ok. but that is no excuse for the torture and abuse that is proven and not blown out of proportion.
but anyways..enjoy misusing it for your purposes...and live your dream of the great american nation that does nothing wrong and all only for the best of their people. believe that, zombies

Ah thank you, I knew your 'type' would enter the thread. The article is about Canada and the accusations aimed at it not your American ranting that is borderline flaming. Many americans do care, quite a few of them have posted about the American torture abuse some of course dont care but that is also true in Canada unless you are suggesting you can speak for every person in Canada...something Im sure you wont claim. Sucks when accusations hit close to home eh? Removes that little moral superority complex.

If you actually bothered to pay attention the thread was more along the lines of everytime a terroris suspect is arrested they all seem to cry torture and the abuses being cited here are hardly what most would consider torture much like the abuses in Gitmo which consisted of loud music and questioning a suspect in a room with filled with pictures of the WTC on 9/11. Gitmo has many problems on many levels, torture isnt one of them however.

[bdh]

but anyways..enjoy misusing it for your purposes...and live your dream of the great american nation that does nothing wrong and all only for the best of their people. believe that, zombies

At the end of the day this as little to do with America and more to do with Canada.

if they tortured or mistreated prisoners i know that the canadian public at least cares

Thats easy to say as a Canadian. Its also what many Americans say. I don't think its fair for one nation to point the finger at another if they are not willing to point the fingers at themselves.

[Aristophanes]

I wouldn't be surprised if the suspects were a little roughed up, a little mishandled, but that has no bearing on the constitutional meaning of 'cruel and unusual'...and if you've ever been a Canadian teenager, you know that there's nothing unusual about a little roughness on the part of the law.
WTF do these people expect? The whole idea of law enforcement is that it's supposed to be unpleasant: not so unpleasant that it leads to palpable abuses and corruption, but unpleasant enough that people think twice before breaking the rules.

This is so typical of the Toronto Star.

[Tigran of Sasoun]

You know these dam muslims **** me off!. They come to a country they hate, live here as happy as can be, then think its cool to blow people up! WTF!. First you get a home from your crappy country, get good schooling, free health care, what else do you want?

I think all these terrorist guys born in Canada and U.S.A are these wierd nerdy guys in highschool that everyone makes fun of so they think, "ill show them, ill blow people up, wait till the people who made fun of me see me, ill be famous, and theyll know i could have blown them up to" Lol!

As for the accusations, its B.S. The government says yes thats what they do. And those muslim activists are stupid!!. Instead of saying "this is horrible, these people are wrong for trying to do this" they are defending those bastards! SHAME!!!! DISGUSTING!!

[Lord Rahl]

I've got the perfect thing to say...*ahem*...

It is Stephen Harper's fault!!!

Sound familiar? 'Nuf said.

[Erik]

The difference between the US and Canada is that in Canada:

Physical abuse, however, is not tolerated by the ministry, she said.

"All ministry employees are required to adhere to those policies and they're held criminally responsible for any excess use of force."

So if you get tortured in Canada you can complain and the people responsible for the torture wil then face a criminal investigation and possible prosecution.

But American prisoners, like Chineese/Iranian/N-Korean etc. prisoners, have no such protection from legal systems.
If they get tortured they have no way to complain and the people responsible would never get prosecuted unless it happens to be convenient for the government (like with the Abu Ghraib incident).

[Last Roman]

hmmmm, I bet they make them listen to Celine Dion

@Erik

The soldiers at Abu Ghraib have been prosecuted (or are being prosecuted, I forget which).

[KingOfTheIsles]

If the allegations are true, then it is wrong, and the perpetrators should be brought to justice. If it isn't true, then good. I don't think this warranted the sneering tone of the original post.

[Erik]

@Erik

The soldiers at Abu Ghraib have been prosecuted (or are being prosecuted, I forget which).

That's what I said.

But they didn't get prosecuted because the inmates filed complaints or because the US government realy thinks torture is bad.
They got prosecuted because photos leaked to the media that were harmfull to the US war efford, so they picked out a few low-ranking scapegoats to save their own butts.

Many reports sugest torture continues to take place at Abu Ghraib.
Women who were captured said they got raped by US soldiers, for example.
But now they make sure no photo's get leaked, and they clossed of the place to organizations like the red cross, so they can rape/torture all they want and nobody wil get prosecuted.

The difference with Canda is that prison guards there can get prosecuted for torture even if it's not convenient for the Canadian government.

[Virgil]

@ erik - Are we really holding any Chinese or N. Korean Prisoners in Gitmo?

Also, I'm sure the beatings are exaggerated. You know how the media and lawyers work. A inmate gets shoved to walk and little faster or spun around forcefully into a wall during a search and he cries bloody murder. the lawyer calls in repeated beatings and then applies it to every prisoner. It's really quite pathetic. They are just taking advantage of the stigma surrounding terror suspects right now and it is shameless.

Besides - as Aristophanes already said, since when has law enforcementespecially people suspected of terroristic activities (which used to be a big charge but now seems to be commonplace) had to be nice nice to prisoners. I probably shouldn't be posting as I am in kind of a bad mood right now but honestly- I am so sick and tired of this Political Correctness CRAP! Seriously - these people thried to destroy the lives of many others - in cold blood. And yet we have to be soo nice and caring and cannot offend them in any way. Crime and punishment are not supposed to be a summer camp where you can relax, make friends, and pump some iron in the yard. It is supposed to be harsh and as uncomfortable as possible. Maybe the reason the US has so much crime is that the justice system has to be so careful not to offend the accused in any way. I dont know - its just every time I hear a prisoner scream bloody murder just because his cell always has a light on and he cant get sleep when people in other countries are gang raped by guards and beaten with bars and bats daily. Dont get me wrong - Abu graib was horrible and those people responsible are animals but the pther things people complain about make me sick. Lets throw some of our prisoners in a Columbian or russian or N. Korean, or African prison and let them see how very little they have actually suffered.

[Last Roman]

@ erik - Are we really holding any Chinese or N. Korean Prisoners in Gitmo?.

what? He said like the Chinese or N. Koreans, not that we are holding any Chinese

but you do make a good point. Have a Chinese prisoner come to one of our prisons, and it would probably be a major upgrade