Thinking of upgrading...

[Manco]

Specifically to increase game performance and I'm completely clueless about what's out there hardware wise.

This is what I have

i7 950 @3.07GHz
6GB Ram
Ati Radeon HD5850 1GB Ram
Asus P6T SE motherboard

I'd reckon it's mostly the gfx card holding me back, so any obvious price/performance cards out there atm, say about 300€?
My CPU is still pretty good I think, however I've seen a lot of guys overclocking the same one. How tangible is the benefit in overclocking it?

[irishron]

Which games?

What monitor resolution?

[Manco]

Knew I forgot something:
one screen at 1680*1050 (my main screen), the other at 1280*1024 (I usually run both a game and a tv show/film at the same time )

As for games: Pretty much all the triple A titles of the moment and the future. So basically I want to run S2TW, BF3,... at max settings fluently; and be prepared for Bioshock Infinite, AC3, metro: Last Light,...

[Phier]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Not quite your resolutions but I'd use that as a guide.

Your motherboard does not support SLI but it does support crossfire. I don't have much experience in crossfire but that would be another option for you.

I'm also going to assume that by summer once supplies of 680GTX's are up with demand, that card prices across the board should go down, even for the 7970.

Finally with the new Nvidia card out a lot of people are looking to sell their old ones, if you don't mind the risk of ebay you might be able to find a great deal on a used one.

[Manco]

Never actually thought about crossfire. How would just putting in another 5850 measure up in that chart?

[Crazyeyesreaper]

5970 = 2x 5850s


that said in more modern titles the 5970 is slowing down, aka 2x 5850s are showing their age still potent for sure but 1gb of vram is becoming a limiting factor but a used 5850 should be obtainable for like $90-100 and should let you ride out this generation of GPUs untill the GTX 700 and HD 8000 series hits.

[Totalheadache]

Well re ocing depends on the game but i'd say another 10fps is more or less what a decent oc would give you.

So say you add another 5-10 on for gpu it is def worth it.

For sli/xfire a decent oc is even more recommended.

I'd say wait and see what nvidia are bringing out...i think some mid range cards aka the 670 are in the offing so maybe you dont have to wait for 700 and 800.

p.s you need a decent cooler to oc cpu.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=360776

[Phier]

I have a system with 460GTX's SLIed and it still plays just about every game at very high settings, including Skyrim with texture packs. Personally I think for ease of use a crossfire solution makes the most sense at this point as the card can be had cheaply.

Two 5850's should on paper be better than 460GTX's (I haven't seen a review), and should easily get you through until your next overall upgrade.

[Totalheadache]

well if it were me i'd go single gpu over xfire and i'd perhaps wait to see next cards...

but if op cant wait xfire 5850's isnt bad but then i think xfire and sli are still a bit hit and miss.

[Manco]

Thx for the input, I'll take a good look at going crossfire. Would leave me a bit more breathing room for the next completely new build.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

well in his situation totaheadache

5850 = $90

new GPU = $300-350 upwards of $400 to equal what the 2x 5850s will put on on average,

$90 is a cheap price to pay to get performance comparible to a GTX 580 / 7950 / 670 ti which will all cost $350 +

[Totalheadache]

well in his situation totaheadache

5850 = $90

new GPU = $300-350 upwards of $400 to equal what the 2x 5850s will put on on average,

$90 is a cheap price to pay to get performance comparible to a GTX 580 / 7950 / 670 ti which will all cost $350 +

never said it was bad just in his shoes i'd maybe wait and see perf of nvidia's 670.

and how are you comparing 5850's against a 670ti when we dont know anything yet

but op can do what he want. just saying it were me i'd go with the single gpu less hassle route.

plus he'll get less noise with latest tech...the 5850 is starting to age.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

uh 680 is faster,
670 is going to replace the 580 at said performance / price point in the $350 range
660 should come in around 570 performance

2x 5850 or 5970 tends to be a tiny bit faster on average then a GTX 580 with the GTX 670 replacing the 580 at said price point, would mean both cards are about equal the $90-100 cost makes more sense it gives him similar performance and will let him wait for the next generation of cards

and while i agree single gpu is usually better 66% more expensive for 0% performance gain is not really a viable option

[Totalheadache]

uh 680 is faster,
670 is going to replace the 580 at said performance / price point in the $350 range
660 should come in around 570 performance

2x 5850 or 5970 tends to be a tiny bit faster on average then a GTX 580 with the GTX 670 replacing the 580 at said price point, would mean both cards are about equal the $90-100 cost makes more sense it gives him similar performance and will let him wait for the next generation of cards

and while i agree single gpu is usually better 66% more expensive for 0% performance gain is not really a viable option

well sorry think you are wrong. for a start i think you are glorfying 5850's to a 580 perf which i think it might just do at a push...

we dont know the costs re the 670 so you are guessing.

i'd rather have a single 670 ti which is equal to or more perf than 5850 xfire if that's what you are saying...with less heat/noise and less prone to driver issues.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

and im guessing like me you have the cash right now on hand to make that purchase most ppl here do not and in fact ive owned 5850 xfire i know whats its capable of and yes it on par with the 580 and then some,

you honestly think a 670 Ti is gonna be $300 or less? its not gonna happen

580 = $500 at release
560 = $350-370

680 = $500
670ti = $350-390
670 = $300

heat and noise on 5850s is not an issue even with reference design cards they are extremely quiet, and heat what heat even with reference coolers cards seldom hit 70c under load,

5850s in xfire are faster then a 580 ad run cooler in xfire then a reference 580 according you Guru3D

5850s are mythically awesome but point is

$90 vs $500 for a GTX 680
GTX 680 offers 15-18% better performance at the cost of an extra $410
GTX 580 is same performance but costs $400
still $310 more expensive for same performance

I can see your view point and i guess we can agree to disagree but i dont see the point in the OP pissing away nearly 60-70% for no real gain
and your single gpu blah blah mantra is entertaining since your also considering SLI GTX 580s are you not? so give it a rest single gpu is easier to deal with, but in this stituation its NOT worth the cost.

now if a GTX 680 performance lvl was $300 then id say single GPU makes alot of sense sadly thats not the case right now,

now the GTX 480s ive seen for sale on forums would make a good purchase using Accellero Extreme coolers they run cool and quiet and ive seen them as low as $190 shipped with said coolers was gonna link it but he just sold the last one he had on hand. oh well

[Totalheadache]

i never said the op shouldnt get 5850 but in my opinion better to wait then decide...

in your eyes he shouldnt do that and then you bring facts and figures based upon guesswork on the 670 ti which is what i am saying he should go for but we dont know hard figures yet...

also in your calculations you seem to ignoring the fact he cant sell his 5850...well at least that's how it appears.

ofc if cant wait then yeah 5850 is a great bang for buck combo. just i'd rather go for a quieter running single gpu.

thing is i can accept both arguements you seem to have an issue with minr or more to the point "nvidia" gpus.

happens more or less every time i suggest perhaps waiting or looking at an nvidia gpu alternative. well havent once seen u lists an nvidia gpu as an option...

which surely selling his 5850 and going for a 670 ti is...no?

p.s yeah considering sli 580's but if i dont then i might upgrade to a 780...thats more or less what the op would be doing no...going for a single gpu 2 generations further on, or not?

[Crazyeyesreaper]

$90 for selling = $210-$250 out of pocket still, for no big gain,

670 Ti will be a great bang for buck card, just not really in terms of this generation as Nvidia is sand baging

essentially the real 680 was delayed and may not see the light of day it may become the flagship for the 700 series refresh

essentially

670Ti became the 680
670 becomes the 670 ti
660 moves up to the 670 for the most part

the 680 really is a $350-400 gpu that bog a price bump this generation, overall this entire generation of gpus is terrible in terms of price to performance compared to the current 6000 and 500 series cards, me and you both already have high end performance heavily OCed 580 can get withing 5-8% of a 7970 which is only 10% away from the 680,

in his situation it just makes SENSE, now if he was on say, 5770, etc id tell him wait for the 670 and buy it hands down, but hes not 5850 might not be special anymore but it does rival a 6870 in most situations, power consumption is managble same goes for noise and temps, but mostly its bang for buck that is all i care about

this forum is considered what? Total War Center, most ppl asking about GPUs around here ask to play SHogun 2 what GPUs tend to kick the most ass in that title AMD, the 680 changed that, but all things considered across the board price performance the 5850s win, thats the only metric i really give a damn about,

price performance the 680 and 7970 are terrible gpus same goes for the 580 3gb compared to the 1.5 for 99% of uses, hell a 480 at $250 new if you get aftermarket cooled versions is a damn champ for price performance, fails the performance per watt comparison most of the time however,

and as you said waiting for the next gen is what im telling him, due to Nvidia SAND BAGGING there performance, they COULD have dominated AMD this round they decided not to, because completely dominating your compeition isnt good for business

5850 costs $90, gets him around 60% more performance on average with DX11 games seeing an 80% average, gets him GTX 580 GTX 670 HD7950 performance, but without the cost, and power usage normally during games with 2x 5850s is around 120w each avg from what i experienced 240w gpu load when gaming
considering the power consumption of current gen gpus there cost and performance lvl 5850s are surprisingly good right now, I am honestly surprised

my main idea is if he grabs another card for Xfire hes out $90 gains 60-80% more performance in titles that would actually need it aka Metro 2033, Shogun 2, BF3, etc not a PERFECT nor IDEAL solution but its cheap and effective, and when the GTX 700 series and HD 8000 series release he can save a few $$ a day and when they release by a high end card and get a real performance increase,

spending $200 more for 10-15% more just doesnt seem worth it,

i mean compare for yourself
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforc...-sli-review/10

its not ideal but its the cheapest option available to him, can you really blame me for recommending the cheapest option with the greatest return in performance for the cost,

If the guy on TPU still had is Accellero extreme GTX 480s for sale, id be recommending the OP chase him down, $190 sell 5850 for $90 = $100 and with a quick overclock he gets a Single GPU that beats out a stock 580 but the guy sold out.

$250 for a brand new 480 isnt bad but stock cooled cards were hot and noisey to an extreme more so then any other gpu ive ever had the ability to test.

roughly 5850 xf 5870 xf and a 5970 all score relatively the same a small OC on the 5850s would push them higher, personally had 2 cards that did 1000 + core ran them at 920 core since they didnt need voltage but, regardless, $90 for damn good performance, right now the cost difference is to high,


also dosent help that from the looks the other Nvidia GPUs wont see the light of day till MAY
http://www.guru3d.com/news/geforce-g...pected-in-may/

then deal with lack of supply, hes still looking at month maybe a bit more before we know what to truly expect from the 670 or 670ti, on top of that
performance is still according to nvidia = to the 580 and will replace it at slightly lower price point ballpark is $350 considering the prices of the 470 480 570 580 previously 680 sticking to that same price line up would put the 670 in that 350 range, after cards are annouced we will see shipments pick up then fall flat again, for another few weeks, then things will pick up extremely quickly

but yea 670 and 670 ti are designated for May
660 sometime in Earlier summer

the true 680 which will be pushed as the 685 or 690 (dual gpu might be 695 not sure yet) wont arrive till end of august early september if the 685 even does arrive NVIDIA may keep it until the 700 series again to give them a performance edge that gen also gives them time to make sure its not a repeat 480


but ill put it this way, already talked to EVGA, Zotac, ASUS, Gigabyte and NVIDIA and not a single one of them has any review sample 680s left, if that gives you any idea, stock is extremely limited on everything,

about 2 months is the what its looking like, before we see Nvidia push out more of their lineup and get enough stock rolling to allow people to buy what they want, same thing happened to AMD,

so again currently $90 he gets great performance, if the OP is on a 2560x1440 or 2560x1600 monitor then id say go 680 now, but at 1080p another 5850 on the cheap will get the job done untill the next generation of GPUs arrive.

unlike most here i dont upgrade because it makes sense or because i need to i simply do it to have something new to benchmark and play with,

next toy will be GTX 680, maybe 2 in SLI if i decide be and idiot again which is likely, since ive almost always bought a pair of GPUs first time i havent was the 7970 otherwise 8800GTS x2, 4870x2, 5850x2, 6970x2, 6950x2 all had pairs, time for another SLI rig for my personal rig and not just for testing purposes.


long rant short

5850 xfire = dirt cheap and effective even if he sells the current 5850 the cost for 5850 xfire performance would be higher by a sizeable amount i cant ignore.

for the record ive recommend the 560 Ti 448 core more then a few times, when it released it was the defacto price performance king.

also recommended the 560 Ti 2GB once they became more common, as it eliminated the 6950 2gbs advantage in a few titles and was the same price, overclocking on it gave a better performance boost then 6950 clocking saw,

[Phier]

price performance the 680 and 7970 are terrible gpus same goes for the 580 3gb compared to the 1.5 for 99% of uses, hell a 480 at $250 new if you get aftermarket cooled versions is a damn champ for price performance, fails the performance per watt comparison most of the time however,

I think thats debatable. A 680 runs $500, two 480's in SLI runs $500 (and to be fair newegg has the cheapest one at 284).

Their performance would be close to equal (from what I've read the 480SLI slightly better) but 480 sli would be something of a dead end while you could SLI the 680 at a later date.

This is of course ignoring power and heat.

This is also a moot discussion in this case since he can't even SLI

[Manco]

just noticed it's actually a 5870 I have

Does that change anything?

Also, interesting posts there.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

5850 and 5870 can still crossfire no issue so no doesnt change anything lol