How can i fight with the Apacheans?

[hadisami8]

I've just started the americas campaign as the apaches , and i know how to run their villages and warpaths etc, but i need help with the actual battles. I would like to point out that i'm not the best battle general.

In the most recent battle i had i was taking out a rebel settlement. We were evenly matched so i figured i might as well control my army for minimal losses and to get better at using the apaches. I had 1 medicine man group , about 2 or 3 scouts, 2 or 3 braves, 1 ondes men, around 3 rabbit boys, 2 dog soldiers and the special archer unit which i cant spell (it begins with a k).

The battle started mainly with the enemy (who had quite a few heavy and light infantry , with a handful of archers) charge at me. I quickly put my scouts and onde at front with braves and medicine men behind. Somehow the braves got caught in a melee and they all died. Heres my first question: how do i use braves? I make them throw javelins which seems quite affective but i cant get them to go melee when they need to. Same with scouts , how do i use them? Quite soon all my melees were dead and some of my archers too , but i won the battle by playing cat and mouse with my archers slowly picking off the enemy. How can i actually be successful in a battle? thanks.

[PT_ReVoLuTioN]

if you press Alt the cursor will change for a sword, then if right click the selected units will charge and fight in melee.
in m2tw archers are just useless make so recruit spear some heavy inf and 2-3 javelins and cavalry too that should do it.

[Silent Assassin]

Flaming missiles, cannons, catapults are good anything that gives Moral kill. You could also use trebuchets with the option of throwing cows. The tribes have the highest moral boost than any other faction so you kill that you beat them.

[ImperialAndre]

your guys are forgetting that the apacheans dont have art or cavalry as the apacheans archers is the way forward the rebel villages are small and dont have walls so attack them and use mainly archers surrond the village and attack from all sides enemy casulties will mount up nicely and you will win with only a few losses, later you will gett better units and then let the enemy sally so that your mounted muskets and musketers have no obsticale in seing their target.
elite archers and spearmen are good but the regular dog soldiers will be just as effective.

[Blaze of Macedon]

We just had a thread like this: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=527543

[NobleNick]

Welcome to the forums, hadisami8 !

The 'k' word you seek is "Koitsenko;" and they are excellent archers. If I recall correctly, they are a true upgrade to the Dog Soldiers, which means they also have some melee capability (if you are forced to use them that way, which I would try hard to avoid).

Your early game bread and butter troops are: Scouts (melee), backed by Rabbit Boys (missile) and maybe 2 Medicine Men (for morale).

Your mid-game bread and butter troops are: Apacean Braves (melee), backed by Dog Soldiers (missile) and maybe 2 Medicine Men (for morale).

Your late game bread and butter troops are: Ondes Men (melee), backed by Koitsenko(missile) and maybe 2 Medicine Men (for morale).

A typical Apacean stack (for me) would be about:

1 General
2 MM
10 melee
7 missile

In any case, this is how you use them: melee troops form a battle line, with General and Medicine Men (MM) units evenly distributed along the line and IMMEDIATELY BEHIND your front line. So, if you have 2 MM units and one general, the General would go in the middle, and each MM unit would go half way between the general and the end of the front line. Again, all these second rank units are spread thin (2 or three ranks deep) and packed up tight behind the front line. Then your missile units get lined up behind the general/MM, but back a bit, as if there was another battle line of troops between the backs of the general/MM and the front rank of the archers (this reduces friendly fire).

Try to take advantage of the terrain and the weather. Hopefully you got attacked on the campaign map, so that you are on the defensive on the battle map. If so, (and usually even when not so) set up on the highest ground, with you battle line facing downhill towards the enemy (or where you expect the enemy will be). If the enemy has more than 1/3 of the missile troops that you have, use loose formation for your archers and possibly also for your General/MM.

If you (unfortunately) are the attacker, at least try to pick a sunny day (assuming you have more missile power than your opponent).

Make sure that your front line is longer than your line of archers, or else have 2 of your melee units (one to each flank) or impassable terrain guarding your flanks. (This is especially important if the enemy has cav.) Usually, I will have my most elite melee units on flank duty (you'll see why in a bit).

At the very start of the battle, turn your archers' skirmish mode "OFF;" and ensure that "fire at will" is ON. Start your MM chanting (ideally, this is ALL they will do, until the enemy force is fully broken and routing).

As the enemy advances to attack (which they must, if you are defender), your archers will open up on them as they come into range. If you are uphill, this will be at least one volley sooner than the enemy archers. Reassign targets to archers to get them to fire at approaching lightly armored enemy melee units. As these units get closer to your front line, re-assign the archers to fire at targets farther away, so as to not kill your own warriors. Give preference to lightly armored troops. If no good targets are far enough back from your front line, target enemy archers.

Often (very often) the enemy will favor one side of your battle line, hitting it harder than the other. Call that the STRONG side (the enemy is stronger there). If not, then pick a side to call the WEAK side (enemy weakest there). Then, when the melee battle has been joined: run your elite flank guards out on both sides, ahead of the front line and lined up facing the center of your battle line. Meanwhile target the weakest unit on the weak side (that can be safely targeted) with multiple (2 or 3) archer units. Optionally, turn one unit to flaming arrows. Run both flank units into the flanks (or, even better, the backs) of the enemy line. On the weak side, run your flank guard into the backs of the endmost unit fully engaged with your front line, or else into a unit that is wavering because of archer fire (or both). Your objective, on the weak side, is to cause a rout.

If you are successful in getting a unit to rout disengage your flank unit, and assign archers to fire arrows into the routers' backs (but be careful to keep the archers from running after the fleeing unit). Now take the flank unit and the unit you just freed up, and throw them both into the backs of the enemy engaged with your next friendly unit over in your battle line. The enemy unit there now has THREE units on it, two of which are attacks to its back: Should be an insta-rout.

Then you take all freed units and move on to the next unit in line, and etcetera. This is aften called "rolling up the line," or "rolling up the left (or right) flank." If executed well, you always have vast numerical superiority at the next unit in your battle line. The only question is: can you "roll up the line" fast enough to get to the enemy's strong side, before their strong side caves in your other flank. Usually (unless you are very out-manned, on VH battle difficulty, or really screw up) the answer is, "Yes." A big part of this is because you have the MM giving a morale bonus to your troops; as well as giving a morale de-buff to the enemy troops, making them rout that much more quickly.

Do not be afraid of the PAUSE button: It is your friend.

And, again, use the terrain. Always strive to be uphill of your opponent.

There is more; but, for now, the above is the best advice for 80% of your encounters; and should work for all encounters where you are roughly evenly matched with foot melee or mixed foot melee/ foot missile foe.

[Double A]

Apache archers are really good melee units,e specially for their price. I prefer to spam them over "real" melee units.

[hadisami8]

Thanks everybody for the help , especially noble nick! I'm doing better , and the other thread that blaze of macedon directed me to also helped a lot. I just have one more problem that im not sure is a glitch or not. I'm at around turn 60-70 and in each city for many turns i have trained about a brave and then a rabbit boy/dog soldier and in the cities in which i can recruit two at a time i usually make 2 dog soldiers. But still for some reason i haven't unlocked Koitsenko's or onde's men. I wont be able to expand by beating the french with rabbit boys so i really need help with this, thanks.

[Willowran]

check the building's list (button found in settlement scroll). Check each individual building. You probably havent built the right one yet.

[MacCarthy]

I went by this site but I don't think it's quite exact on the conditions and it maybe a bit random. It does say you need the access the teir 3 units of Onde's men and Koitsenko before opening up any the horse and gunpowder units.

I got both on about turn 100 with 15 territories taken. I took only lands west of the Mississippi to give the French some room and allied with them with military access. I mainly just pushed south fighting with other native tribes with first being the Chica somethings <black and red banner>.

[MacCarthy]

opps this site http://medieval2.heavengames.com/m2t...eg/index.shtml

[Kamos]

That may be a mistake to ally with the French. You can get horses and gunpowder unit by defeating them in battle.

[MacCarthy]

I'm going by the guide said, which has worked so far for most part. Beside's one can always break an alliance.

"Note that there is a reported bug where unlocking cavalry/gunpowder units before Koitsenkos & Onde's Men means that you can never recruit those third tier units."

[hadisami8]

I see , i think i have recruited loads of archers but havent won enough battles or caputred enough settlements. I think i'll just restart the campaign, thanks a lot everyone for your help. Its great to see people play such a good game even though its quite old.