Did I really damage my ram?

**Aristocrat** · June 11, 2006, 02:31 AM

Ok, I believe my stab at overclocking may have damaged my ram.
3 days ago I was playing F.E.A.R. at max settings with the average fps at 62.
Yesterday I played and noticed that the game seemed really 'off', so I ran the performance test for the game and the average had slunk all the way down to 32 with the minimum at 12.
So I ran the auto-detect function for the game and everything was set low, the computer section (those who have played it know what I mean) went from default maximum to medium, or custom the next time I started, then medium again, while the graphics were severely reduced as well.
Getting an abject feeling of horror

I exited the game and there was a windows notify icon in the taskbar saying windows had run out of virtual memory.
For the sake of it I ran Prime95 but everything seemed stable after an hour of torture testing, so I just ran memtest, and on the first run through (test 7) I got 2 errors.
So for confirmation...have I really damaged my ram? Or could it still be something else, like my cpu...which I doubt.

Edit: Testing individual DIMMS now, first one went through 3 passes without errors, 2nd one has gone through 1. I know this doesn't prove the memory isn't bad, but if it isn't, what could it be, individual slot on the motherboard? the cpu? (as I understand that is where the A64 memory controller is, hmmmm).

**OTZ** · June 11, 2006, 07:54 AM

Was the RAM OC'd?
What brand is it, and what did you have the settings at?
Run both sitcks (individually) through memtest for a few hours to make sure you know where (if any) the errors are.

**Legionary Jezza** · June 11, 2006, 07:58 AM

Even if itwas your fault or something gone wrong your just unlucky anyway best of luck with your problem.

**Aristocrat** · June 11, 2006, 08:07 AM

The ram was overclocked, (well it had more voltage flowing through it), it is Corsair CSM Extra Low Latency (Timings of 2 2 2 5...though I had them 2.5 3 3 5).
I have run both sticks individually through memtest for an hour a piece and just ran the memory in dual channel in different slots to what I had it originally for another hour and no more errors.
I'm thinking it is my first ram slot on my motherboard now, I'll test it by itself with one stick just in case (I might...it is right underneath my xp-70 heatsink and so is annoying to get to...and I hate removing heatsinks and putting them back on, just a hassle). The 3rd slot seems fine , so I will test just to be sure.
I am really hoping it is just a ram slot and nothing else as I can't really afford to dish out $200-300 for ram right now, and I certainly can't afford a new cpu...though I probaly could get the money for a new motherboard.
Come to think of it, this slot may have always been a little faulty (provided I am right), as windows would hang on the user logon screen now and then though I would never give it too much thought...I guess the extra voltage running through it to the ram may have tipped it over the edge.

I will post back tomorrow...it's 11pm here now and I need to get some sleep after two nights of world cup marathons

On memtest though, in dual channel in slots 1 and 3 the errors ALWAYS came up in test 7. Slots 2 and 4 seem fine atm.

**Hadrian** · June 11, 2006, 01:27 PM

Man, I hate to hear your struggling with tracking down a hardware issue. Test 7 errors are a sure sign something is wrong though. Be routine,consistent and repetative, I know you will, just a reminder. Its really hard to damage dimms, you'd have to've been "pumpin some juice" through those particular models to damage them. Oh, I think there is a mobo monitor for download on 3D Guru, that may help resolve the issue....good luck Aussie

PS your new avatar is going to cause me nightmares!

Oh, for all the Basement nay sayers who maintain you can't tell the difference between 30 FPS and 120FPS.....Aristocrat could see a difference between 30 FPS and 62 FPS!

(sorta like swatin a hornets nest with a stick...!)

**Incinerate_IV** · June 11, 2006, 02:44 PM

His minimum is 12 FPS thats why, if it stays at a constant 30 FPS, then I'm pretty sure no one will notice.

**Aristocrat** · June 12, 2006, 03:51 AM

Update: Well After shifting the DIMMS across a slot (so they run as dual channel is slots 2&4) windows was all over the place and unstable, so I assumed that the 'hardware change' had messed with something, and considering it had been 2 years I formatted and reinstalled windows.
After 3 or 4 failed attempts (IRQ errors that seem odd...) I got it installed. Yet on entering the desktop I am confronted with 'Your system has recovered from a serious error' message, ignoring it I install the graphics driver only to have the computer crash to restart instead of returning to the desktop.
I re-entered windows but 2 times it restarted just when the desktop or entry screen was about to show up, and the third time I got in...only to have it crash when I tried to install sound card drivers.
Giving up I restarted and am running memtest.
Any ideas?
I might try the power supply but the errors while trying to install windows lead me to believe it is something else.
If it isn't ram I would think it is the cpu, though if memtest turns up fine I will try one DIMM in slot 3 and see if that solves the problem....and then punch something.

**OTZ** · June 12, 2006, 06:32 AM

When you were installing Windows, did it indicate that certain files could not be copied?

I am pretty sure it's a problem with your RAM at this point. Let us know how the memtest goes.

**Aristocrat** · June 12, 2006, 08:39 PM

On the windows installation, yes that also happened, but I kept retrying each file till it did.
I ran memtest for 6 hours last night (while I was out watching Australia win) and there was not one error at all (I can't remember how many passes had been done but it was at least 15), so I don't think it is the ram. (could be but seems unlikely).
Could it be the motherboard? I flashed a new BIOS a while back but might it be unstable? (I'm just throwing ideas out there but this BIOS needs new chipset drivers...could formatting my hard drives (and thus deleting the drivers along with windows make the computer this unstable?)
I will try to install the chipset drivers...(if windows stays stable long enough) and if that doesn't work I will flash to an older BIOS.

I've never seen this before outside of a ram problem, but I guess in theory it could the motherboard, either it is dying or the BIOS is not very good (or a combination).

**Incinerate_IV** · June 12, 2006, 08:53 PM

Here try this:
http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=103

Its Prime95, run the torture test (the memory intensive and the cpu intensive one). It works better than memtest (on my computer at least), so it might find errors quicker. If it still didn't get any errors then it might be the motherboard or the PSU.

**Aristocrat** · June 12, 2006, 09:55 PM

I tried Prime95 before I reinstalled windows and the torture test ran fine, non-stop, on an type of test setting (blend, etc).
I'm going to clear the CMOS and start from scratch...as the DVD/cd drive isn't working in windows (but works if it is an executable cd on boot-up...like the motherboard cd).
Times like this I wonder why I want to work with computers...

edit: Update, I cleared the CMOS and thus reset the BIOS back to version 00 but the problems, if anything, are worse.
I cannot install windows, the computer keeps resetting during the install process (and not where it is meant to...) and last time I got another BSOD, this time with a PFC_LIST_CORRUPT error, which usually means bad ram, but all mem-tests since I moved the DIMMS have come up clean.
It could be the cpu, but as I said I had ran the torture test (when I was testing the stability of my overclock(s) before this started and no errors were reported after 5 hours so I do not think that is the problem (out of curiosity however...is it possible to run Prime95 via a disk on bootup?).
I would change the PSU but my other PSU doesn't have a PCI-e 6pin plug and I only have AGP cards otherwise (dang) so I can't be sure.
I still think the motherboard may be faulty (or perhaps that is me wishing to get a DFI...).
Either way I guess I will have to give it to a so-called expert (shudder) to test the damn thing as I simply don't have the parts to **** around with it any more.

I have one last idea, see if the computer is actually losing power during the resets or just re-loading (ie is it losing AC power, or just stuffing around, a BIOS option may help identify this).

**OTZ** · June 13, 2006, 05:12 AM

Try installing Windows with just one stick of RAM.

**Aristocrat** · June 13, 2006, 06:31 AM

Funnily enough (not), that worked, I don't get it, 2 6 hour memtests and countless smaller ones turned up nothing.
So does that mean the ram is bad? (one stick, or the other, or both), or is it something to do with the dual channel? (as in the cpu and/or motherboard)?

**OTZ** · June 13, 2006, 08:48 AM

Well I am glad it worked! However, it still leaves you in a pickle. I am fairly certain it is a RAM issue. I don't recall what your specs are - mobo/cpu?

If it's new RAM, you should be able to RMA it. Some companies are really good. I don't have any experience with Corsair - but OCZ has replaced my RAM twice in the last 4 months (each time giving me better stuff than what I sent back.)

**Incinerate_IV** · June 13, 2006, 10:59 AM

Insert the other stick in the same motherboard slot and see what happens, sometimes it can still be a motherboard issue.

**Aristocrat** · June 13, 2006, 09:36 PM

The other stick same slot, Prime95 detects an error within 5 seconds of starting the (blend) torture test, so I guess that DIMM IS bad, which is weird considering I ran it in MemTest for an hour or 2...I'll let run in memtest anyway and see how long it takes to find an error...if ever.

I don't think I have the little plastic casing the ram came in anymore, I have the docket, but the casing isn's with all the packaging I've got from when I put this computer together...dang it.
It's around 15 months old now...according to the docket.

**Aristocrat** · June 14, 2006, 08:22 PM

I ran memtest on the DIMM that wouldn't work with Prime95 and after 10 hours it had no errors, but I did notice it was being read as DDR402...or running at 201mhz as opposed to 200...so it must be the ram then, but memtest doesn't read it as the speed it should be, only the speed it is (if that makes sense).

Edit: Double Post...I blame the database errors.

**Aristocrat** · June 19, 2006, 08:03 AM

Update: (Triple post maybe but meh....days apart).
I fiddled around with my computer some more and decided to tighten the memory timings to 2-2-2-5 from 2.5-3-3-5, and Prime95 ran torture test for over an hour without errors until I stopped it, as opposed to before I changed the timings when it crashed the computer within 5 seconds.
I am running memtest again at these timings (both sticks of ram are in and running in dual channel...which brought errors before) and after 3 passes no errors have been found.

I find this odd. I have heard of timings being too tight, but never heard of them being too loose...except for decreased performance.
That DDR402 thing was my own fault (the cpu was being run at 1 HTT over stock...I must have been tired...real tired).
Anyhow, anyone have any ideas, tomorrow I will try these timings with each individual stick and see if Prime95 runs fine, but at the moment, it seems to me that one of the DIMMS couldn't handle timings that loose (which may be indicative that it is not 100%).
I will post back tomorrow, I'm hoping the tighter timings fix the problem...as odd as that sounds (to me).

**OTZ** · June 19, 2006, 08:31 AM

Just make sure you run memtest for at least 8 hrs.

With quality RAM, timings and voltage are very important. If you check the Corsair website, they probably have recomended settings in their support forum (if they have one)

**Aristocrat** · June 20, 2006, 05:17 AM

A 10 hour memtest turned up no errors.
So I went ahead and started installing all new drivers and updating windows (via a network connection as the computer has no modem) which was going well until I restarted. Then the computer would not pick up the ethernet controller drivers, and proceeded to get the IRQ not less than or equal message 5 times. (BSOD).
So I reinstalled the chipset drivers package (of which the ethernet driver is a part) but everytime I restarted to finish the installation the driver was again not found on startup.
So I installed the ethernet drivers from original Asus cd (even though the new one was from Asus) and it seems alright again.
I am running prime95 now and it is doing fine so far...

I am more confused. Either the new Asus drivers I downloaded are buggy and caused all this. Or the ram is bad but I can't get any errors on memtest anymore, or the motherboard is dodgy...maybe option one...though I find that hard to believe as the computer was fine for days with the new drivers before the problem first started.

...sigh