Fots against Shogun 2, WTH?

[Tomcon]

So i played some battles against fots armys with my shogun 2 army. I won some, but only if my opponent had max 6 lvl. Now i played an automatch against 9lvl fots general. That was just wrong(softly sayed).

WTH is that? He had around 7 or 8 musket teams of 150 people wide on almost whole map. I couldnt flank him with my cav because of his spears, but isnt a point. When my samu/monk archers start to fight with his musket it was retarded. This musket teams shoot so damn fast and directly. I thought musket need some time to reload, but they seem like went back from future and brought some M! Garands, not muskets. Other thing. Melee skill of some fots musket units. Is this another joke? Some musket teams(marines) have very powerful reload times(yeah, they brought M1 Garands) and also very good attack power with huge numbers and low price. U kidding me? This sticks on their garands are so good they cold beat sword/katana at melee? Retard. Only thing good about fots is pretty bad melee cav. Other things as described.

[Cinnamon the Hun]

I can't see why you bother fighting them in the first place.

[Pariya]

Hey m8 it will be very hard but if you make a few changes to your normal playing style you should stand a fighting chance.

This might help you for 14k Battles:


& this might help you for 5k battles:


Good luck!

[Tomcon]

I changed my playstyle. Before never used bow units. Now using something like 1 monk bow, rest ash bow or samu bow+ cheap(150-200) units from rots+ mass yari/light/katana/fire cav. I manage to win against an 1-6 lvl gen but higher, no single win. Theay are outnumbered and to fast reload time+ quite good at melee.

[Pariya]

Try various rushing strategies. The key is lots of cavalry and not just blindly charging them head long into the guns but spreading wide and surrounding as best as possible. Lots of attendants to screen and some high armour troops behind them. Attendants in front of some of your cavalry charges as well if you have enough time to prepare and get them there. Act like its a pinnball game and bounce your cav between units getting all his guns engaged so they can't fire. Aka don't get stuck on a unit while the unit behind it is still firing.

[Chopy]

Don't play with FOTS generals , problem solved.

[krisslanza]

For the thing about them reloading quickly, I think gun generals buff the reload speed of their line infantry. Also they probably spread them out into a long, thin line instead of having ranks behind them. This can give the illusion of them firing faster, simply because they can all fire, instead of just one rank. The guns of FotS don't nearly have the reload of matchlocks though, which is probably intentional considering they're using much more modern guns.

[Brain_in_a_vat]

The only thing that's good about FotS is that melee cav are are kinda weak? Are you kidding me? If playing against FotS armies is such a turmoil then there are two plain and easy solutions: #1 stop playing against them, #2 buy FotS. Regardless, stop whining like a four year old girl.

[Tomcon]

Obviously one way to beat fots army is cav spam and bows hidden at woods or behind hills... .

[assistec24]

Obviously one way to beat fots army is cav spam and bows hidden at woods or behind hills... .

Lol, I am a fots player, and I use firearm units vs melee guys. One thing plp here ignore are, in equal skills, a fots army will overrun a shogun army.
Every time when I start a match-made battle, I check my opponent traits. If I see there "swordsman" or anything who suggest he.s an melee general, i prepare my army :

I take all 4 yari Ki (max. allowed) + 1 of rev. cav. + 3 of Imperial Guard Cav; this are 8 + 1cav units (with the general) - from 9 cav units, 5 are with good firepower - rev cav will erase any high level melee unit in 4-5 sec; Imp. Guard cav have verry good stats 12 morale, 15 melee attack, 10 defence and 20 charge. 80 reload. And A LOT of ammo - 60; Then I bring 2-3 kyoto police (20 bonus vs cav) - 1-2 shogutai and 2-3 yari Kachi; This army easy erase an shogun 2 army. My cav. usually kill the shogun 2 cav easy; the melee troops resist just the time I need to come back with my cav. and start to kill them from behind, once my enemy loose all cav; I think are a huge mistake for a melee general not to bring firearm units; Who risk all on melee die fast; Simply Fots cav. are much better then Shogun 2 cav; And I do not count here with the Shogunate Guard cav.....

[krisslanza]

Lol, I am a fots player, and I use firearm units vs melee guys. One thing plp here ignore are, in equal skills, a fots army will overrun a shogun army.
Every time when I start a match-made battle, I check my opponent traits. If I see there "swordsman" or anything who suggest he.s an melee general, i prepare my army :

I take all 4 yari Ki (max. allowed) + rev. cav. + 3 de Imperial Guard Cav; this are 8+1cav units (with the general) - from 9 cav units, 5 are with good firepower - rev cav will erase any high level melee unit in 4-5 sec; Imp. Guard cav have verry good stats 12 morale, 15 melee attack, 10 defence and 20 charge. 80 reload. And A LOT of ammo - 60; Then I bring 2-3 kyoto police (20 bonus vs cav) - 1-2 shogutai and 2-3 yari Kachi; This army easy erase an shogun 2 army. My cav. usually kill the shogun 2 cav easy; the melee troops resist just the time I need to come back with my cav. and start to kill them from behind, once my enemy loose all cav; I think are a huge mistake for a melee general not to bring firearm units; Who risk all on melee die fast; Simply Fots cav. are much better then Shogun 2 cav; And I do not count here with the Shogunate Guard cav.....

Frankly gun units in S2 are only good for morale damage really. A S2's main power again a FotS player is cavalry, because the largest advantage S2 armies have over their FotS brother's, is S2 troops tend to be far better in melee on average. Particularly against units using guns.

I've won some games in FotS only using a small amount of gun units, it's all about knowing when to charge into melee and hit the enemy.

[assistec24]

Frankly gun units in S2 are only good for morale damage really. A S2's main power again a FotS player is cavalry, because the largest advantage S2 armies have over their FotS brother's, is S2 troops tend to be far better in melee on average. Particularly against units using guns.

I've won some games in FotS only using a small amount of gun units, it's all about knowing when to charge into melee and hit the enemy.

yep, agree, but still fots cav. are much better then shogun 2 cav; The rev cav - example - are the unit who kill faster then any unit in all game; also, shogunate guard cav + imperial guard cav will beet easy any shogun 2 cav....

[krisslanza]

yep, agree, but still fots cav. are much better then shogun 2 cav; The rev cav - example - are the unit who kill faster then any unit in all game; also, shogunate guard cav + imperial guard cav will beet easy any shogun 2 cav....

Well given you compared a cavalry unit using dual revolvers to melee cavalry there...

And true I suppose, but both those are also limited use, retainer-required I think? Like the Great Guard, so it makes sense they're a bit above the bread and butter cavalry units. I think they also have guns. Guns kinda ruined the formula.

[qqsuen]

So i played some battles against fots armys with my shogun 2 army. I won some, but only if my opponent had max 6 lvl. Now i played an automatch against 9lvl fots general. That was just wrong(softly sayed).

WTH is that? He had around 7 or 8 musket teams of 150 people wide on almost whole map. I couldnt flank him with my cav because of his spears, but isnt a point. When my samu/monk archers start to fight with his musket it was retarded. This musket teams shoot so damn fast and directly. I thought musket need some time to reload, but they seem like went back from future and brought some M! Garands, not muskets. Other thing. Melee skill of some fots musket units. Is this another joke? Some musket teams(marines) have very powerful reload times(yeah, they brought M1 Garands) and also very good attack power with huge numbers and low price. U kidding me? This sticks on their garands are so good they cold beat sword/katana at melee? Retard. Only thing good about fots is pretty bad melee cav. Other things as described.

Because those troopers weren't using musket! They used rifle, some are even Breech-loading rifle!

That's why they reload so fast. It's still fortunate for S2TW players that FOTS isn't historically accurate enough. In reality the Saga domain even posses about 2000 Spencer repeating rifle during the Boshin War, which can continously fire 7 shot before needing to reload.

Just imaginate that your sumaria army is charging toward the enemy, your opponet deploy a Spencer repeating rifle infantry squad acing your amry. Forming two rolls and turn 'knee fire' on. When your sumaris get in their range, 150x7 = 1050 shots are fired in less then 5 seconds. After 10-15 seconds of reloading, another 150x7 = 1050 shots are fired against to your army.

A gatling gun at 19 century fired 200 rounds per minutes. A squad of 4 fired 4x200 = 800 rounds per minutes, and it can already inflict great damage to your army. But a skillful Spencer repeating rifle infantry squad can fire around 3000-4000 rounds per minutes. And with much better accuracy..........(say 65)

Lucky that CA just didn't add Spencer repeating rifle in the game.

[Thorien Kell]

So i played some battles against fots armys with my shogun 2 army. I won some, but only if my opponent had max 6 lvl. Now i played an automatch against 9lvl fots general. That was just wrong(softly sayed).

That is not wrong but absolutely right. And line infantry is really unit from future, they are modern units that deploy rifles, there are centuries in between doctrine and military technology in between those games. Look at this this way: S2 and FotS was never actually supposed to be balanced - how could it be? Game is fairly historically accurate. It's just bonus added for fun. It's stupid to rant over something nobody really forces you to do.

Now another thing is that fighting modern armies is difficult and requires serious changes in doctrine and engagement rules - but it's definitely doable. Some ppl are even become experts in it. So it's an optional challenge. Up to you to take it or not.

[TheCrazyCat]

retainers to field IMP and SHOG guard cav? never seen those before.

[Moonhoplite]

Fots has better cav than s2, yari ki are cheap and really good.

Never buy shogunate guard cav unless you've reached max yari ki. Upgrade the yari ki to the same cost as guard cav, and you ll see that yari ki are way better.

[Gen. Sherman]

Fots has better cav than s2, yari ki are cheap and really good.

Never buy shogunate guard cav unless you've reached max yari ki. Upgrade the yari ki to the same cost as guard cav, and you ll see that yari ki are way better.

I'm pretty sure if you upgarde a yari ki to the same price the Shogunate Guard Cavalry is still better overall. You may be able to surpass a single factor like attack or charge if you focus in a clan skill, but overall between attack, charge, morale, and melee def, plus the fact they inspire others, the shogunate guard is still a better unit.

Even if you want to argue that, I just find they always do very well in my use of them.

EDIT: Scratch what I say about the statistics in this part. I was mistaken as to the values increased per vet point

[Gen. Sherman]

Nope no retainers needed for any FotS cavalry.

Also does anyone else have any more feedback about the armor effect vs FotS bullets? I've read so many variants that it'd be nice to know which one is right. Hopefully someone who mods the game knows???

[krisslanza]

Nope no retainers needed for any FotS cavalry.

Also does anyone else have any more feedback about the armor effect vs FotS bullets? I've read so many variants that it'd be nice to know which one is right. Hopefully someone who mods the game knows???

FotS guns all have an "armor-piercing" effect and completely ignore armor. If they hit, the unit dies unless it has multiple hit points.