This is so super rediculous words do not describe it

[Lt.Speirs]

First of all: 2.5 is awesome. Im loving every little aspect of it; garrison script is a nice additional challenge as well as the trait system et cetera. Very good job

However, im a little disappointed because of the following:

I took the city of Carthage with 2 armies, 1 polybian roman, 1 allied. (they consist of 8 cohorts, 4 triarii, 4 velites and 4 cavalry or something) All 2 or 3 bronze chevrons and silver upgrades.

When my allied army returned to arretium to retrain, the polybian roman army stayed near carthage to prevent the enemy from reaching the city.

There it was, at the site what should be near Zama, I was attacked by a fairly strong army of carthage with a 2 star general (just like mine)

They had some weak skirmishers but also 2 sacred bands of baal and some early libyan spearmen. Ánd one unit of towered forest elephants. So I thought, nice im in a defending position, I should take out those elephants with my velites.

I was wrong...

The entire army of carthage was destroyed, yes.....with their general killed in the early stage I really thought I was going to win. That one unit of towered elephants got my ENTIRE army killed or routed, even with my general alive and kicking. I charged into the elephants' rear with all my cavalry but I couldnt even kill ONE of them...

How is this possible... I know I didnt bring any arches with fire of whatsoever, but shouldnt 4 units of velites and an entire army of roman soldiers be enough to atleast kill some of them??

Just wanted to say that it seems a bit unfair that one such unit of elephants can rout a 3000 men strong roman army. (once again with my general still alive, absent theirs)



Really eager to hear your replies

Edit: 1- turn, H/M, Campaignvs Romanvs Awesomvs Rtw.exe

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Roma 1turn M/M Play-test (so I assume the battles are similar).....

I invaded Carthage too with 2 armies similarly, but had already come up against the elephants on Sardinia. I too was worried about them having seen here that they were much more devastating than I remembered from Vanilla.

However, I would recommend one or two units of archers in an army (once I used to have 4 [Vanilla!]), but I've been using Velites/Antesignanii more as I would wish and found them very effective). An important thing to remember, however, is to stop the javelin troops from using up their missiles as soon as you see the elephants. Also keep cavalry well away from them (hire some Numidians or take some of the Paleovenetii (sp?) with you; they are useful, but still need their javelins).

With care, the elephants haven't been too much of a problem. Those Sacred Band boys, however, can take some killing - but can be done once the elephants have gone.

So - a few fire arrows and concentrated javelins and, with luck, a few stampeding elephants may take some of the enemy with them. Do stay away from them, however. Skirmishers and missile cavalry; that's how the ancients did it and I'm very happy to say it works here too.

[Julio-Claudian]

Yes!
Oh my goodness. Two bloody allied legions those elephants cost me.
Flaming arrows and Velites' javelins raining down on them but they just wouldn't die or run amok. The rest of the army was dead but they still managed to wipe me out... twice!

[xsithspawnx]

Just be glad you aren't facing Cataphract Elephants. I've done tests with entire armies of the best archers and javelin troops possible against one unit of those tanks and I'm lucky to kill two or three individual elephants on large unit scale before my entire army is toast. I have the video recorded and am probably going to post it to make a point. I'd really like to hear from the devs about it, because I don't remember having this level of trouble with them in 2.0 or 2.1a.

[Lord Uxbridge]

If you save the velites' javelins and throw it all at the elephants at the same time they should either get servery weakened or run amok fairly quickly. And if that doesn't work use the pilla too. I've never found them a problem myself yet I have not fought any in 2.5.

Also what formation is your infantry in?? Because if they are densely packed that could explain why they were obliterated so easily.

[Lt.Speirs]

If you save the velites' javelins and throw it all at the elephants at the same time they should either get servery weakened or run amok fairly quickly. And if that doesn't work use the pilla too. I've never found them a problem myself yet I have not fought any in 2.5.

Also what formation is your infantry in?? Because if they are densely packed that could explain why they were obliterated so easily.

You should really see for yourself in 2.5 Im quesing those elephants can kill a named legion when its like this

[Ferdiad]

This reminds me of the the Elephants of SPQR, they used to have 15 hitpoints and 30+ armour. Ah those were the days, when I needed 3 Velites per elephant.

[Lt.Speirs]

This reminds me of the the Elephants of SPQR, they used to have 15 hitpoints and 30+ armour. Ah those were the days, when I needed 3 Velites per elephant.

I've been playing SPQR as well back in the day... I recall those elephants weren't as invincible as these guys. Seems like they've got some kind of shield of psychic energy if you will

Only problem then was I got beaten faster by the GCS than you can say rainintheparkandotherthings

Anywho, you should be able to kill those clumsy beast with 4 triarii right??......RIGHT?!

[Ferdiad]

Not a hope, 4 Velites however...

[Rollins]

Not a hope, 4 Velites however...

Thanks. So far, it works for me. Tried 4 legionary Velites vs 1 forest elephants. It took less than half ammo to make them run amok, and still had some ammo left after i finished them.

[Ferdiad]

Thanks. So far, it works for me. Tried 4 legionary Velites vs 1 forest elephants. It took less than half ammo to make them run amok, and still had some ammo left after i finished them.

I usually have about 2-3 per stack but I often just tansfer a unit or two in If I know I'm going to be encountering them.

[Sertorio]

Thanks. So far, it works for me. Tried 4 legionary Velites vs 1 forest elephants. It took less than half ammo to make them run amok, and still had some ammo left after i finished them.

I usually have about 2-3 per stack but I often just tansfer a unit or two in If I know I'm going to be encountering them.

Most guys are having problems not with the regular forest elephants but with the carthaginian towered and seleucid cathaphact.
Right now they are probably OP kiling machines.
Balistas are one option, other is changing the EDU file and tweak them down a bit.

I played a lot against forest elephants in my 2.1 Gallaeci campaign. Normaly 1/2 units of Falrica infantry are enough to make them Amok.
There is a battle opening the ptolemaic campaign( Raphia). I sugest you try it.

[Primo]

There is a battle opening the ptolemaic campaign( Raphia). I sugest you try it.

Thats impossible as Egypt. I manually reduced the elephants armor and moral by ten, and they still killed of 3/4 of my army, before they routed without any loss.

[Diocle]

No an Imperial Legion Not!!!....It is a monstrosity!!!!......Did you try using some machine?.....The Romans had some good machines for these situations!....

[Lt.Speirs]

No an Imperial Legion Not!!!....It is a monstrosity!!!!......Did you try using some machine?.....The Romans had some good machines for these situations!....

Ah! now tháts helpful. Ill try that the next time ill encounter them.

[Ferdiad]

Not a hope, 4 Velites however...

[Ferdiad]

Flaming artillery could be effective yes.

[SeizeVictus]

this happened to me too. was fighting seleucia at raphia and my entire army and my stack of reinforcements were destroyed completely.

[S6k6l6v]

this happened to me too. was fighting seleucia at raphia and my entire army and my stack of reinforcements were destroyed completely.

Same here, I killed the entire Seleucid army but the elephants just kept stomping on my men.

[TheFaceCC]

have u guys tried using siege equipment too like scorpions or ballistae, make sure you have a big amount of scorpions and you should be able to take out elephants