Is Misticism Necessary?

[Jesus The Inane]

"The truth is that Tolstoy, with his immense genius, with his colossal faith, with his vast fearlessness and vast knowledge of life, is deficient in one faculty and one faculty alone. He is not a mystic; and therefore he has a tendency to go mad. Men talk of the extravagances and frenzies that have been produced by mysticism; they are a mere drop in the bucket. In the main, and from the beginning of time, mysticism has kept men sane. The thing that has driven them mad was logic. ...The only thing that has kept the race of men from the mad extremes of the convent and the pirate-galley, the night-club and the lethal chamber, has been mysticism — the belief that logic is misleading, and that things are not what they seem."

- Seeing as rationalism is probably one of the most complicated belief systems around, and so tends to make men mad, would you people agree that men needs some mysticism, or else he'll end up committing suicide? And if yes, is it reallly justifiable, or reasonable?

[hsimoorb]

No, there is no such evidence. There have been plenty of rational men in history, and suicide remains a relative abnormality.

[Jesus The Inane]

But those men did not deal with the rationality of now days... I think rationality has gotten to a point where it does drive men insane. And it is when rational man put some mysticism in their lives that they drive their demons away.

[Saint-Germain]

To the Ethos!

[Sam]

- Seeing as rationalism is probably one of the most complicated belief systems around, and so tends to make men mad, would you people agree that men needs some mysticism, or else he'll end up committing suicide? And if yes, is it reallly justifiable, or reasonable?

Since when do complicated things make men mad? That sounds like a leap in logic to me.

No, I don't believe that people need mysticism. I know lots of 'rationalists' who study complicated subjects and haven't thought about suicide.

[Zenith Darksea]

If you're talking from a Christian perspective, then yes, mysticism is vital as we are unable to know God fully through rationalism.

Otherwise, I don't know. Is mysticism necessary in your day to day activities? Maybe.

[MoROmeTe]

Because our rationality and information are limited a degree of mysticism is a reality, which is more than necesarry. It is not mysticism in the religious sense but rather belief in something or somethings outside our knowledge...

And in Christianity it is of the outmost necesity because it is the only way of really knowing God...

[Cluny the Scourge]

"The truth is that Tolstoy, with his immense genius, with his colossal faith, with his vast fearlessness and vast knowledge of life, is deficient in one faculty and one faculty alone. He is not a mystic; and therefore he has a tendency to go mad. Men talk of the extravagances and frenzies that have been produced by mysticism; they are a mere drop in the bucket. In the main, and from the beginning of time, mysticism has kept men sane. The thing that has driven them mad was logic. ...The only thing that has kept the race of men from the mad extremes of the convent and the pirate-galley, the night-club and the lethal chamber, has been mysticism — the belief that logic is misleading, and that things are not what they seem."

i don't know where this quote is from, but it is simply flat-out wrong. Tolstoy had plenty of 'faith', but he was a fool, and very mystical indeed. The nonsense he was able to wrap logic around to try to justify and rationlise his arguments is just embarrassing. Have you read any of his articles and essays from after the stopped writing real fiction and decided to be a crusader for his insane vision of mankind? They're GIBBERISH - the fevered babblings of a decaying old man being taken seriously when he should have been put away in a home somewhere where he could get proper care.

He argued total, and I mean TOTAL non-resistance to force from others. He specifically states in one of his essays that this even extends to if his family were going to be harmed from others.

He argued that, in defiance of all human history and every dynamic that has ever driven civilisation, all aggression, conflict and war are perverted aberrations of human behaviour that should be defeated by 'recognition of the simple law of love' (there is no such thing, of course).

He argued, get this, that science does not exist. It is a fraud designed to displace natural religion and ethical teachings, to liberate men to do evil. He even denies things as fundamental as physics and chemistry - its just embarrassing to read.

He argued Shakespeare was a complete phoney devoid of any talent at all - Hamlet and King Lear were especially atrocious examples of his inadequacy.

This is the man who wrote War and Peace - you could weep for what he became when he developed a conscience. A complete spastic.

[Jesus The Inane]

Since when do complicated things make men mad? That sounds like a leap in logic to me.

Pardon my mistake. I meant to say, that if we look at the world rationaly, we can safely come to the conclusion that we are only animals, that our existence is not special nor important. And that when we die we are not concious anymore. And this drives man insane.

No, I don't believe that people need mysticism. I know lots of 'rationalists' who study complicated subjects and haven't thought about suicide.

Maybe they haven't told you about it...

Cluny, perhaps the author of the quote was wrong about Tolstoy, but was he wrong about mysticism's importance in our lives?

[Sam]

Pardon my mistake. I meant to say, that if we look at the world rationaly, we can safely come to the conclusion that we are only animals, that our existence is not special nor important. And that when we die we are not concious anymore. And this drives man insane.

It doesn't drive me insane, nor hundreds of thousands of other atheists.
I understand that some people might not be able to handle it, like fundamentalists, but not all people need mysticism.

Maybe they haven't told you about it...

I'm a rationalist who studies complicated subjects and I have never once contemplated suicide, and my other engineering mates are certainly not insane.