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  1. #1
    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    Default UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17482035

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The government is proposing a minimum price of 40p per unit of alcohol in England and Wales in an effort to "turn the tide" against binge drinking.

    It believes this could transform the behaviour of those who cause the most problems for hospitals and police.

    A new alcohol strategy also aims to help local areas tackle problems and work with the drinks industry to encourage responsible drinking.

    The industry said a minimum price was misguided and would hit consumers hard.

    Similar proposals are already being considered by the Scottish Parliament.

    Under the minimum price proposal, such as at the suggested 40p level, it would act as a floor and retailers would not be allowed to offer alcohol cheaper than that.

    Sobriety schemes

    While most prices would be unaffected, it could significantly alter the price of heavily-discounted ciders, super-strength lager and cheap spirits.


    The impact could include:

    .A £2.99 bottle of red wine, containing 9.4 units of alcohol, would be priced up to £3.76

    .Cheap, strong lager at 75p a can, with three units per can, would become at least £1.20

    .Bulk-bought strong cider, costing 87p a can and containing four units, would almost double to at least £1.60

    .Cheap supermarket whisky at £16.10, with 40 units of alcohol, would probably be unchanged in price

    A proposed ban on multi-buy offers would affect top-end promotions, such as a percentage discount on a half-case of wine, as well as the likes of buy-one-get-one-free budget deals.

    The alcohol strategy also seeks to give local agencies an "extensive range of tools and powers" to tackle problem drinkers and premises, such as by restricting opening hours and density of licensed premises.

    It also plans to "end the notion that drinking is an unqualified right by piloting sobriety schemes for those people whose offending is linked to excessive alcohol consumption", says the strategy document.

    Plans are outlined to work with the drinks industry on "changing the drinking culture, from one of excess to one of responsibility; and from one where alcohol is linked to bad behaviour to one where it is linked to positive 'socialising'".

    'Mayhem and fear'

    Prime Minister David Cameron said the government wanted to turn around a drinking culture that last year had contributed to one million alcohol-related violent crimes and 1.2 million hospital admissions.

    Unlike banning below-cost selling, which is being introduced in England and Wales in April to stop drinks being sold at less than the tax paid on them, it affects the majority of drinks sold outside pubs.

    But does this stop people consuming too much? The evidence suggests it might. Modelling by Sheffield University in 2008 found increasing price reduces consumption most among hazardous and harmful drinkers.

    Mr Cameron said: "Binge drinking isn't some fringe issue, it accounts for half of all alcohol consumed in this country. The crime and violence it causes drains resources in our hospitals, generates mayhem on our streets and spreads fear in our communities."

    He added: "We're consulting on the actual price, but if it is 40p that could mean 50,000 fewer crimes each year and 900 fewer alcohol related deaths per year by the end of the decade."

    Home Secretary Theresa May said that just under the cheapest fifth of all alcohol sold would be affected by introducing a 40p minimum.

    "Too many people think it's a great night out to get really drunk and have a fight in our streets," she told BBC Breakfast.

    "What we need to do is to set a price that is actually going to ensure that we don't damage responsible drinkers. People who like a drink or two, who like going down their local pub, have nothing to fear from this policy."

    Ministers say the minimum pricing could help pubs because it would stop supermarkets offering cheaper alternatives.

    The strategy also includes a plan for a late-night levy to make clubs and pubs help pay for policing.

    Shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper said the Labour Party supported the idea of a minimum unit price, subject to debate about where it should be set to ensure it worked.

    "The government needs to make sure it does not just create a cash windfall for the supermarkets, instead of lowering prices of other goods or supporting better prevention and treatment of alcohol abuse to cut crime further and save lives," she said.

    Competition law

    Just three months ago, the government said it thought minimum pricing would be incompatible with European competition law

    Gavin Partington, interim chief executive of the Wine and Spirit Trade Association, said he thought a minimum price move would be "highly likely" to face a legal challenge from a drinks company.

    But he expressed concern the proposal could prove to be a "Trojan horse for tax", and if minimum pricing failed to make it through the courts then the government might simply increase duty on alcohol.

    "I think one has to be quite sceptical," he said. "Only a few months ago you have got two ministers saying they understand it to be probably illegal, and suddenly now they are advocating it - I don't think the legal position has changed any."

    Andrew Opie, of the British Retail Consortium, said: "Irresponsible drinking has cultural causes and retailers have been hugely engaged in information and education to change attitudes to drinking.

    "It's a myth to suggest that supermarkets are the problem or that a pub is somehow a safer drinking environment. Effectively, a minimum price is a tax on responsible drinkers."

    Professor Sir Ian Gilmore, of the Royal College of Physicians and the Alcohol Health Alliance, welcomed the proposals.

    "Health care workers who struggle every day to cope with the impact of our nation's unhealthy drinking will welcome tough new policies in areas such as price and licensing that are based on evidence and should bring about real benefits," he said.

    Chief Constable Jon Stoddart, the lead on alcohol for the Association of Chief Police Officers, said: "Week in, week out, in town centres across the country, the police have to deal with the consequences of cheap alcohol and irresponsible drinking.

    "The growing trend for 'pre-loading' means that young people are often drunk before they even enter a bar.

    "By the time they hit the streets at closing they are more likely to get involved in crime and disorder or injure themselves or others."


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Units of alcohol:

    Bottle (75cl) of wine - 10 units
    Small (125ml) glass of wine - 1.5 units
    Standard (175ml) glass of wine - 2.1 units
    Large (250ml) glass of wine - 3 units
    Pint of weaker (3.6%) beer - 2 units
    Pint of stronger (5.2%) beer - 3 units
    Bottle (330ml) of beer - 1.7 units
    Can (440ml) of beer - 2 units
    Alcopop bottle (275ml) - 1.5 units
    Small (25ml) shot of spirits - 1 unit
    Large (35ml) shot of spirits - 1.4 units





    Basically the government wants to introduce a minimum price of 40p per unit of alcohol. David Cameron claims this is to help tackle binge drinking. I say that's a load of bollocks. If people want to drink (which they evidently do) then they are going to dish out regardless of the price. All this does is punish more sensible drinkers while people who like to binge drink are simply going to dish out more money in order to do so, leaving them with less money for all their other needs. What was that term that the Conservatives loved to use during Labours time in power? Nanny State was it?

    They should just come out and admit that this is simply another government money raising scheme that is just going to hit normal people.

    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Cesarz's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Azog 150 View Post
    Basically the government wants to introduce a minimum price of 40p per unit of alcohol. David Cameron claims this is to help tackle binge drinking. I say that's a load of bollocks. If people want to drink (which they evidently do) then they are going to dish out regardless of the price.
    I disagree. I think price is a large factor in stopping people from doing things which they really don't need to do. For example, I want to own a Bugatti Veyron and drive up the M1 at 200mph, but the price disuades me.
    So, if someone wants to drink all night and spend half of their benefits money, I think the price could dissuade them. Or, at least limit the amount they drink.

    Otherwise, I'm indifferent towards these plans.
    "Never trust a quote you find on the internet" - Niccolò Machiavelli

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    priam11's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    Time for you Brits to emigrate or go the revolution route.
    "Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you.
    Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure."
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    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Cesarz View Post
    I disagree. I think price is a large factor in stopping people from doing things which they really don't need to do. For example, I want to own a Bugatti Veyron and drive up the M1 at 200mph, but the price disuades me.
    So, if someone wants to drink all night and spend half of their benefits money, I think the price could dissuade them. Or, at least limit the amount they drink.

    Otherwise, I'm indifferent towards these plans.
    Only people with benefits drink?

    And have you never been to town on a night out? There is hordes of people queuing up to buy expensive drinks.




    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    It raises no money for the government, just FYI. This is a price floor not a tax. (And TBH if you are drinking anything cheap enough to get hit wth is wrong with you? )


    I'm a student. Frosty Jacks and Biere Speciale are my lifelines.

    Is a price floor not contrary to what Conservatives usually like to preach? If people want to drink, they will drink. This is a measure that will simply lead to people being stripped of yet more cash.
    Last edited by Azog 150; March 23, 2012 at 01:42 PM.
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  5. #5
    Cesarz's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Azog 150 View Post
    Only people with benefits drink?
    No, of course it's not only people with benefits I just used them as an example, its those people who would be less likely to buy alcohol.
    "Never trust a quote you find on the internet" - Niccolò Machiavelli

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    Cesarz's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Azog 150 View Post
    Only people with benefits drink?
    No, of course it's not only people with benefits I just used them as an example, its those people who would be less likely to buy alcohol.
    "Never trust a quote you find on the internet" - Niccolò Machiavelli

  7. #7

    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    It raises no money for the government, just FYI. This is a price floor not a tax. (And TBH if you are drinking anything cheap enough to get hit wth is wrong with you? )

  8. #8

    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    It doesn't do anything good, here in Sweden we have horrendous alcohol taxed and you can only buy alcoholic beverages in government run shops but the only result of these regulations are that smugglers and German alcohol shops thrive.

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    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    A £2.99 bottle of red wine, containing 9.4 units of alcohol, would be priced up to £3.76

    Cheap, strong lager at 75p a can, with three units per can, would become at least £1.20
    Thats pretty cheap actually. I usually spend 7 pounds, in my local Swedish currency, on Red Wine, and 1.87 or less pounds on a bottle of Ale or beer.

    Like Molon said. But you can buy cheap beer in grocery stores like ICA Molon.

    Quote Originally Posted by priam11 View Post
    Time for you Brits to emigrate or go the revolution route.
    um no thank you.

    Maybe you should consider revolting?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by MathiasOfAthens; March 23, 2012 at 01:57 PM.

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    Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    Sweden taxes the out of alcohol

    Anyway its a bit like killing a fly with a shotgun, but in a sense it makes sense. When there is one group affected by this its those who are those bingedrinking at young age. Those teenagers with not much to spend, and its pretty clear they are the ones that go all out on flat-rate parties, taking advantage of the situation.

    It could ruin cheap brands though. Couldnt care less about these places that offer flat-rate drinking to young people though.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

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    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    Thats pretty cheap actually. I usually spend 7 pounds, in my local Swedish currency, on Red Wine, and 1.87 or less pounds on a bottle of Ale or beer.

    Like Molon said. But you can buy cheap beer in grocery stores like ICA Molon.
    Are you kidding me? They only sell 3,5 % light beer in ICA's and there's no way that I'm going to drink such water. It's a ing joke that you can only buy strong liquor in government controlled shops in the 21th century.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    Sweden taxes the out of alcohol

    Anyway its a bit like killing a fly with a shotgun, but in a sense it makes sense. When there is one group affected by this its those who are those bingedrinking at young age. Those teenagers with not much to spend, and its pretty clear they are the ones that go all out on flat-rate parties, taking advantage of the situation.

    It could ruin cheap brands though. Couldnt care less about these places that offer flat-rate drinking to young people though.
    Well young people are the ones the smugglers benefit the most from so it doesn't really make any sense.

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    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by molonthegreat View Post
    Are you kidding me? They only sell 3,5 % light beer in ICA's and there's no way that I'm going to drink such water. It's a ing joke that you can only buy strong liquor in government controlled shops in the 21th century.
    I did say cheap beer.

    Its the same in the states though... you cant buy strong liquor in stores other than licensed alcohol stores.

  13. #13

    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    I did say cheap beer.

    Its the same in the states though... you cant buy strong liquor in stores other than licensed alcohol stores.
    In very few states of the US, it's not like there's a federal law for it.

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    mattgoby's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    David Cameron claims this is to help tackle binge drinking. I say that's a load of bollocks. If people want to drink (which they evidently do) then they are going to dish out regardless of the price.
    Not really, i'm still in school [legal age though obviously] and still doing my a levels, i am unwilling to get a job as this would lower my grades at a level as i would have less time. If i go to a party, i buy cheap. At one point everyone was buying 2 and a half LITRES of cider for 3 pounds http://www.premierdelivered.co.uk/in...-5-litres.html

    Since then we've gone up market and drink things around the £3.50 mark .

    But my point is it will have an effect on binge drinking but only with people who have EXTREMELY active [unlike me] social lives and is unemployed.
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    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by brandbll View Post
    This is what happens when you have an old bag of bones Queen running your country.
    That makes no sense at all.

  16. #16

    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    Sweden taxes the out of alcohol

    Anyway its a bit like killing a fly with a shotgun, but in a sense it makes sense. When there is one group affected by this its those who are those bingedrinking at young age. Those teenagers with not much to spend, and its pretty clear they are the ones that go all out on flat-rate parties, taking advantage of the situation.

    It could ruin cheap brands though. Couldnt care less about these places that offer flat-rate drinking to young people though.

    it mainly hits really cheap cider...like white lightning, can tbh smells like paint stripper.

  17. #17

    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    Azog you and I are both regular binge drinkers and I know I buy alcohol based primarily on its price.

  18. #18

    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    If its to tackle the drinking culture of Britain, then why don’t we close the bar in parliament and sell off the wine cellar?

  19. #19
    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by swoosh View Post
    If its to tackle the drinking culture of Britain, then why don’t we close the bar in parliament and sell off the wine cellar?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17148799



    Quote Originally Posted by irelandeb View Post
    Azog you and I are both regular binge drinkers and I know I buy alcohol based primarily on its price.

    So do you think a move like this would stop you drinking, or would you just go for the new cheapest drink?
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    Pielstick's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: UK Government to introduce minimum price for alcohol

    As has already been pointed out, it's not a money making scheme for the government as the retailers will keep the extra money.

    Unfortunately our society has a problem with alcohol, and the problem has to be addressed.

    For whatever reason in modern British popular culture it's very cool to get absolutely faced. People don't drink alcohol for social reasons. They drink to get pissed as a fart and act like bloody animals. The more you can drink and the more outrageous your drunken exploits the cooler you are.

    Alcohol, and the attitude to it in this country is a major problem on several levels. Anti-social behaviour fuelled by alcohol. Police resources being needed to maintain a heavy presence around popular nighttime venues in our towns. STDs and unwanted pregnancies resulting from drunken shags where people are too -faced to bag up.

    I've visited something like 30-odd countries and every continent and the UK is far and away the worst when it comes to this. We have a reputation around the world for being drunken louts.

    Something needs to be done about it, but I'm not sure a minimum price for alcohol will be the answer.

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