special units question

[Valiant Champion]

why is units such as warrior priests, ulric priests, repeater handgunners etc not general units themselves?

[Reiksfart]

They are all hero level characters in the tabletop game. Come in singles which usually attach to another unit. Definitely shouldn't be recruitable very often if they were changed from scripted appearance.

[Ichon]

I think he means why are there units that exist with the script that spawn that aren't generals... which is basically because generals are the same for each culture so the only way to create unique units is as a separate unit not a general and have them spawn with a named general that is a hero in tabletop and the unit name.

[paradamed]

I think he means why are there units that exist with the script that spawn that aren't generals... which is basically because generals are the same for each culture so the only way to create unique units is as a separate unit not a general and have them spawn with a named general that is a hero in tabletop and the unit name.

Actually I think they are not generals because the team didnt want them to regenerate nor to have increased numbers. In one of the first versions they were generals if Im not mistaken but we would end up with units of 48 bright wizards, for example, which unbalanced the game.

[Ichon]

Actually I think they are not generals because the team didnt want them to regenerate nor to have increased numbers. In one of the first versions they were generals if Im not mistaken but we would end up with units of 48 bright wizards, for example, which unbalanced the game.

Right- because they can change how the model looks but is it possible for multiple general types(sizes, HP, stats?) for a single culture? Since there are quite a few 'special' units. If they could then having the unit as a general seems to make more sense... 1 single general unit isn't going to be too unbalancing given the number of battles that must be fought.

[paradamed]

It would be nice to have witchhunters or repeaters that if they barely survive a battle with only 3 or 4 men left would regenerate, but of that can only be done if they are a general unit with a named character.

It would certianly make some units more reusable. They are few enough as is and than after a hard battle the unit may only have 3 or 4 men so they are basically something you retire to a castle to help the garrison. An heirloom to be hung in Michel Delving's.

Thats exactly what happens in my campaigns too. It would be nice if units like witch hunters or warrior priests could at least be retrainable. if they were generals we wouldnt even need the retrainable feature.

1 single general unit isn't going to be too unbalancing given the number of battles that must be fought.

If you are talking about the witch hunters or warrior priests I have to agree. But if you make bright wizards and steam tanks heroes then it will surely create an unbalance. A unit of steam tanks that has 10 steam tanks (or of bright wizards which has 40 men) and regenerate would be just too much.

[Reiksfart]

Yeah, I'm an idiot who can't read and needed more coffee before responding to anything.

[Valiant Champion]

It would be nice to have witchhunters or repeaters that if they barely survive a battle with only 3 or 4 men left would regenerate, but of that can only be done if they are a general unit with a named character.

It would certianly make some units more reusable. They are few enough as is and than after a hard battle the unit may only have 3 or 4 men so they are basically something you retire to a castle to help the garrison. An heirloom to be hung in Michel Delving's.

[Lord Baal]

Bet your arse it can be done. Right now Empire factions have both knights generals and longsword generals, also the long-shot general guys that comes with the tank. I would guess a repeater general could be a good character. However I don't know if they can make more than three kind of generals.
Actually I'm going to go into the campaign script tonight and see if is possible to change some of this spawning dudes and mercs to have other units as generals.

[Valiant Champion]

I think whoever decided on this felt that the special units should all be treated the same. If wizards and tanks could not work as general than no units should be generals. This to me is somewhat flawed.

[Saladin]

i thought warrior priests,wizards, and witch hunters can be retrained? in my campaign i retrain my bright wizards all the time. it is setup that way in the EDB.

[paradamed]

Really, I didnt know that. Where can the special units be retrained pls?

[Timorfeys]

To retrain (not train!) witchhunters and priest you need high cathedral in capital.

[paradamed]

To retrain (not train!) witchhunters and priest you need high cathedral in capital.

Thanks for answering! Are the bright wizards and steam tanks retrainable too?

[Ichon]

What are the stats on Steam Tanks? I've never gotten them in any Empire campaign... although I've gotten Bright Wizards before turn 30 several times so go figure! I don't consider Bright Wizards that useful honestly. A company of any of the Empires Knights usually gets 2x as many kills in every battle.

What do you need for the Bright Wizards to retrain? Maybe I am using them wrong as I've never lost one but they also don't get many kills.

[Posantio of Umbria]

I don't quite know the steam tank's stats, but they're basically Timurid Armoured Elephants (those with the cannons). They act in a similar way, very hard to kill, very messy in melee (to the enemy) and the cannon packs quite a punch.

[nightwatch666]

Bright wizards usually end up with over 1000+ kills per battle for me. In siege battles they are the best thing ever, they annihilate clumps of enemy troops. Just make sure they are using the attack where it rains fire instead of the fireball they shoot out. Just be careful to only aim at enemy targets that are far away, or they will end up hitting your own troops.

Steam Tanks are almost as good, but they end up vanishing mysteriously. Before the battle starts it will have 16 for the unit, so 8 tanks, but when you actually get on the battlefield, suddenly it drops to 6 (3 tanks).

[Posantio of Umbria]

Steam Tanks are almost as good, but they end up vanishing mysteriously. Before the battle starts it will have 16 for the unit, so 8 tanks, but when you actually get on the battlefield, suddenly it drops to 6 (3 tanks).

yes, that happened to me too! in the first battle I got 8 of them, lost maybe one of them, and then the next, while there were 14 men in the unit pre-battle, I get only 3 tanks (thus 6 men) on the battlefield...

Oh well, I've played the table top game and recall my steam tank exploding from overheating on numerous occasions could've happened there, the tanks not showing up have malfunctioned/exploded.
and add to that the fact that a unit of 8 steam tanks means that 80% of all functioning steam tanks in the entire world (lore) joined your army, 8 of them is too much anyway from a lore prespective...

[Timorfeys]

I dunno. But i doubt - they are too powerful and uniq.

[Valiant Champion]

The only one I know for sure right now that is retrainable is krueger but I am not sure what building does it. I was able to retrain him back up to full size.