Bouncing Balls.

[Blackthorne556]

Now, I never played NTW Vanilla, so I don't know if it was ever a feature of the game, but I remember that in ETW the cannon balls bounced. Was this removed by CA, or is it DarthMod?

I would like to have round shot bounce on impact. If it existed in Vanilla, can anyone tell me how to turn it on? a 12 lb cannon ball lobbed 800 paces by 2 lbs of powder would do more than knock down 3 guys, killing 1, and just land with a single thud. they would bounce and roll for 10-20 yards or more leaving a swath of carnage in their wake.

[Nigrinus]

But they do bounce.

[Blackthorne556]

It had appeared to me that each shot was landing once. Am I wrong? I removed camera shake this morning, I'll try a round with 1 unit of cannon against a swarm of infantry to see if I can see a bouncing/rolling/skipping action.

[Bendit]

I was playing a battle before with two batteries of 12 pounders firing at maximum range at a group of 500 French conscripts. The canon balls were skipping heaps, at least three of fours times on a slight downward slope. Interesting that although they were knocking over dozens and dozens of men over ten minutes, only five were actually killed. The rest got up with after a bit of moaning.

It may be that the force of the canon ball is modelled to be less at maximum range. Personally I wouldn't want to stub my toe on a canon ball.

[Major Hogan]

The rest got up with after a bit of moaning.

I like that feature .

In my battles the canon balls bounce all the time if possible (hitting a slope may prevent bouncing). At long range a canonball should be less accurate - but not less deadly!

[Blackthorne556]

Yeah, I turned off the camera shake and I cant believe how obvious it was. Sorry.

Next question, where do I turn up the lethality? Like you said, so many troops who apparently got hit with balls of foam instead of 12lb orbs of heavy pain.

[Bendit]

Someone suggested the guys who get back up were hit by their fellows falling, rather than the canon ball itself.

[Blackthorne556]

Someone suggested the guys who get back up were hit by their fellows falling, rather than the canon ball itself.

Well, that would explain a lot. If my canon ball hits the Frenchman up front and carries him through the crowd and all the poor sods behind him are only hit by a flying body and not the ball of lead carrying him, it would make sense that I get the pattern of a crowd of guys getting up around 1 dead soldier.

If that's the case, it's too bad they don't have any degree of penetration like ballistae in MTW2... I wonder if pumping up the cannons "firepower" stats across the board would change what happens at the business end...

[bwc153]

For Cannon-balls not doing much damage....
I believe Darthmod in E:TW had a fragmentation effect where cannon balls would have a (very small) radius of damage to increase effectiveness - the justification was that cannonballs could fragment some when they hit the ground, or the ground/bodyparts could be thrown about and hit and kill someone next to them.

[Blackthorne556]

Been so long since I had ETW on my PC that I don't recall. I'm still finding cannon in DMN to be too weak at long range, seems too accurate, but non-lethal. A little dispersion at max range is good when the enemy is massed, rather than every shot hitting the 1 unit I aimed at and none of the others... But it seems 4 of every 5 men I knock down... get back up.

I just wish I could rip up a unit of infantry with a lucky hit like I do to cavalry...

Close range is another story. Canister is just as I would imagine it. A nightmare for anyone in front of it.

[bwc153]

Well, I'd try DM:N at the moment but I need to finish my campaign with EiC - as the specific campaign is an Imperial Psychopath campaign, and last time I stopped playing my Imperial Psychopath campaign for another mod the save ended up deleted because I forgot about the save and nuked my computer a few months later to fix some issues with hardware and some software (like Java).

[Major Hogan]

My experience is that the accuracy of artillery is quite as it should be . An artillery unit might consist of 6 instead of 4 cannon in my opinion, and this would justify the accuracy as is even more.

However, if a cannon ball hits I do see a lot of guys get up as if nothing has happened. Can't imagine a few kilos of metal at this speed would only make one casualty and only throw the others around a bit .

[Blackthorne556]

I don't know. If lethality was turned up and guns were at 6/unit, cannons would be too much at current accuracy. Imagine if each roundshot did to infantry what it does cavalry, then increase the guns on the field by 50%... Defense battles would be laughable.

*EDIT* That is to say: Imagine if each roundshot did to infantry what it does cavalry, then increase the guns on the field by 50% "AND ACCURACY WAS NOT LOWERED A BIT"

[Major Hogan]

It has been argued that a larger battery is more historically accurate. I'm no expert but I think a battery of 6 cannons would be great!!

Of course putting in more cannons should not distort game balance. Some playtesting would be needed. Accuracy should not be lowered in my opinion, and if this means that lethality (per cannon) should stay the same, so be it... This would mean that lethality would increase 50%, which might be too much... Hmmm... we would need historical information on scale and casualty rates...

[Blackthorne556]

I agree that 6 would be great. But again, I know some have voiced the opinion that 4 cannons are more versatile in placement. If the launcher could be enable us to elect 4 or 6. The 6 option should also decrease the cost per cannon to have a unit cost the same in both.

I don't think a rebalance in really necessary if we could have 50% more guns. So would the enemy. It comes down to a choice in whether you want an artillery dominant campaign, or if you want to downplay the artillery role.

I don't have any articles or reference to point to, but every piece of literature I have read on the subject indicates; Artillery was king.

[Major Hogan]

I agree that 6 would be great. But again, I know some have voiced the opinion that 4 cannons are more versatile in placement. If the launcher could be enable us to elect 4 or 6. The 6 option should also decrease the cost per cannon to have a unit cost the same in both.

I don't think a rebalance in really necessary if we could have 50% more guns. So would the enemy. It comes down to a choice in whether you want an artillery dominant campaign, or if you want to downplay the artillery role.

I don't have any articles or reference to point to, but every piece of literature I have read on the subject indicates; Artillery was king.

I agree on all points. And yes, Napoleon's artillery was legendary.

[Fencible]

In my opinion the cannons are quite destructive as they are now - certainly in proportion to the expected ratio of casualties caused by various arms. An exposed cavalry unit can be routed rather quickly when targeted by a battery or two. If you consider that the average number of guns per capita in an army of the era was just over 1 cannon for every 1000 men (3 per 1000 for the Russians), most forces in NTW with 2 batteries have too many guns. But who can resist? They are impressive.

[Major Hogan]

In my opinion the cannons are quite destructive as they are now - certainly in proportion to the expected ratio of casualties caused by various arms. An exposed cavalry unit can be routed rather quickly when targeted by a battery or two. If you consider that the average number of guns per capita in an army of the era was just over 1 cannon for every 1000 men (3 per 1000 for the Russians), most forces in NTW with 2 batteries have too many guns. But who can resist? They are impressive.

Hmmm... I witnessed several hits (and I mean bulls eye!) in infantry today with up to 12 men thrown on the ground, and... NO casualties...

[Blackthorne556]

Hmmm... I witnessed several hits (and I mean bulls eye!) in infantry today with up to 12 men thrown on the ground, and... NO casualties...

Agreed. This is all to frequent in my experiences. When A 12LB sphere of lead passes through space you occupy at those speeds, even if you are not KILLED, you do not get up for the duration of the battle... to say the very least.

[Mikail Mengsk]

Uhm, so, somebody knows how to raise the mortality rate for cannonball "semi-hits"?

One more question: does only Mortars and Howitzers has explosive ammo?