Preview III: The Warriors of the Dunes

[Diocle]

...Reading the wonderful AAR of Knonfoda some images were very slow to charge, but not here I can see all the Preview images well.
Maybe TWC Forums have some problem in these days!?!?......

[Constantius]

Nay problem here!

[ALFAJI]

Great work and this is a thanks in arabic

مشكورين جدا جدا جدا

and i really liked your work and i really would like you to use Letters instead of numbers in the arabic units names and i'm ready to help you in the names if you want to

[Joar]

Thank you for your kind words, and your offer. We will take it into consideration, at the moment we're busy with creating the units.

[First Citizen Gallienus]

Hmm, I thought you said you were done with the units, but I guess you just meant for some of the factions.
By the way, who is making the units? Is it just you and julianus, or are there other special contributors?

[Constantius]

Hmm, I thought you said you were done with the units, but I guess you just meant for some of the factions.
By the way, who is making the units? Is it just you and julianus, or are there other special contributors?

you were hoping it was almost finished

[First Citizen Gallienus]

you were hoping it was almost finished

No actually. I have been thinking it's a long ways off. I'm simply saying that Joar had made that statement earlier. That the units were all pretty much done. Unless he just meant the Roman ones or something.

[Diocle]

Probably the truth is in the middle!......

[Diocle]

Did you hear Gallienus? He spoke! Now please, perform a correct 'Proskynesis'!

[tomySVK]

These are great news julianus heraclius, thanks for your report. I will wait patiently, but I´m looking forward for every release of this great mod.

For example I have gone back and modified most of the roman legionaries to improve them.

May I ask about the axes, attached to the belts of some units shown in some sample pictures? How accurate is this representation and are they still used for the improved models? I know it´s only a small issue. Thanks in advance.

[julianus heraclius]

May I ask about the axes, attached to the belts of some units shown in some sample pictures? How accurate is this representation and are they still used for the improved models? I know it´s only a small issue. Thanks in advance.

Yes, the axes will be gone, at least for the pre diocletian models.

[tomySVK]

Thank you for your quick answer

[Ayoub of Mauretania Tingitana]

Berbers went from being confused with Arabs to being confused with Sub-Saharan Africans. And their sense of fashion seems like a downgrade from Numidians lol, come on! :c

[b257]

Berbers went from being confused with Arabs to being confused with Sub-Saharan Africans. And their sense of fashion seems like a downgrade from Numidians lol, come on! :c

Well do you have sources or illustrations on how they look for this period?

[Ayoub of Mauretania Tingitana]

Well do you have sources or illustrations on how they look for this period?

Just like modern Berbers? Basically just like me, not too brown, not too white. The sculptors of ancient Numidians *my picture* clearly show that they were had mediterraneans features, not negroid ones, so, that whole, "they got "white" after the Arab conquest" is nonesense, if you actually read about the Arab invasion of North Africa, you'd know about the Berber Revolt which happened approximately forty years after the conquest in which the Arabs were expelled from the Maghrib region "Morocco and Algeria" and they stayed for a couple more centuries in Tunisia until Berber dynasties took over there too (Zirids etc.), the modern North Africans who claim they are Arabs are not descendants of the Arabs who invaded North Africa in the 7th century but the Arabs who were sent by the Fatimids to punish the Zirids who recognized the Abbasids as the true Caliphate instead of the Fatimids, those Arabs consisted of 3 major tribes, Banu Hilal, Banu Sulaym and Banu Hassan. Banu Hilal had like, let's say 30,000 Arabs with families and children etc, Banu Sulaym were like 200 people, so, how in the hell, can a few thousand Arabs change the DNA of a quarter of a continent? Especially since they didn't focus on one area on the region, they spread out all over the place, meaning smaller communities, and to top it off, they had marriages with Berber tribes.

^ I am just using logic to tell you how they looked, skin wise. When it comes to clothing, I don't know, there are no writings on this period, I found nothing. But I still doubt that whole turban thing..

[Ayoub of Mauretania Tingitana]

Well do you have sources or illustrations on how they look for this period?

Just like modern Berbers? Basically just like me, not too brown, not too white. The sculptors of ancient Numidians *my picture* clearly show that they were had mediterraneans features, not negroid ones, so, that whole, "they got "white" after the Arab conquest" is nonesense, if you actually read about the Arab invasion of North Africa, you'd know about the Berber Revolt which happened approximately forty years after the conquest in which the Arabs were expelled from the Maghrib region "Morocco and Algeria" and they stayed for a couple more centuries in Tunisia until Berber dynasties took over there too (Zirids etc.), the modern North Africans who claim they are Arabs are not descendants of the Arabs who invaded North Africa in the 7th century but the Arabs who were sent by the Fatimids to punish the Zirids who recognized the Abbasids as the true Caliphate instead of the Fatimids, those Arabs consisted of 3 major tribes, Banu Hilal, Banu Sulaym and Banu Hassan. Banu Hilal had like, let's say 30,000 Arabs with families and children etc, Banu Sulaym were like 200 people, so, how in the hell, can a few thousand Arabs change the DNA of a quarter of a continent? Especially since they didn't focus on one area on the region, they spread out all over the place, meaning smaller communities, and to top it off, they had marriages with Berber tribes. ^ I am just using logic to tell you how they looked, skin wise. When it comes to clothing, I don't know, there are no writings on this period, I found nothing. But I still doubt that whole turban thing..

[b257]

Just like modern Berbers? Basically just like me, not too brown, not too white. The sculptors of ancient Numidians *my picture* clearly show that they were had mediterraneans features, not negroid ones, so, that whole, "they got "white" after the Arab conquest" is nonesense, if you actually read about the Arab invasion of North Africa, you'd know about the Berber Revolt which happened approximately forty years after the conquest in which the Arabs were expelled from the Maghrib region "Morocco and Algeria" and they stayed for a couple more centuries in Tunisia until Berber dynasties took over there too (Zirids etc.), the modern North Africans who claim they are Arabs are not descendants of the Arabs who invaded North Africa in the 7th century but the Arabs who were sent by the Fatimids to punish the Zirids who recognized the Abbasids as the true Caliphate instead of the Fatimids, those Arabs consisted of 3 major tribes, Banu Hilal, Banu Sulaym and Banu Hassan. Banu Hilal had like, let's say 30,000 Arabs with families and children etc, Banu Sulaym were like 200 people, so, how in the hell, can a few thousand Arabs change the DNA of a quarter of a continent? Especially since they didn't focus on one area on the region, they spread out all over the place, meaning smaller communities, and to top it off, they had marriages with Berber tribes. ^ I am just using logic to tell you how they looked, skin wise. When it comes to clothing, I don't know, there are no writings on this period, I found nothing. But I still doubt that whole turban thing..

I don't think using a statue as a reference is a valid source. I mean I'm sure not all of them had such features, Berbers were and still are a diverse group.

[Ayoub of Mauretania Tingitana]

Sculptures* They had*

[Ayoub of Mauretania Tingitana]

They are diverse now, because the northerners are obviously affected by European invasions, thus, we see some of them with significantly whiter skin than the others, even blue eyes and blonde hair in some cases. the central people are usually mediteranean but darker and tend to have black hair and brown eyes, and then the southerners which African American Afrocentrics tend to use as evidence to prove the "blackness" of the ancient berbers, these southerners tend to look like they are mixed, light skin with negroid features, or the opposite, darker skin with features like the other berbers, you can look up the tuaregs and see for yourself, but the thing is, the tuaregs migrated and made contact with the blacks in the 700s', meaning before that there was absolutely no contact between Berbers and the Sub Saharans, obviously the modern Berbers are are diverse, no one is arguing that, but to say that they were always like that is just, illogical. All I know is there are many coints and statues of Numidians kings, they all resembled mediteraneans, the only reason black people exist in North Africa today, is because of the Almoravids who tried to locate the mines of the western African Gold to control the trade, and in later years, the invasion of Ghana by the Moroccans, and the fact that the current ruling family in Morocco, had a military unit called the Black Guard, which consisted of Sub Saharan slaves. This all contributed to the diversity we see today, but at the 400s, not so much diversity going on, I'd assume.

[b257]

They are diverse now, because the northerners are obviously affected by European invasions, thus, we see some of them with significantly whiter skin than the others, even blue eyes and blonde hair in some cases. the central people are usually mediteranean but darker and tend to have black hair and brown eyes, and then the southerners which African American Afrocentrics tend to use as evidence to prove the "blackness" of the ancient berbers, these southerners tend to look like they are mixed, light skin with negroid features, or the opposite, darker skin with features like the other berbers, you can look up the tuaregs and see for yourself, but the thing is, the tuaregs migrated and made contact with the blacks in the 700s', meaning before that there was absolutely no contact between Berbers and the Sub Saharans, obviously the modern Berbers are are diverse, no one is arguing that, but to say that they were always like that is just, illogical. All I know is there are many coints and statues of Numidians kings, they all resembled mediteraneans, the only reason black people exist in North Africa today, is because of the Almoravids who tried to locate the mines of the western African Gold to control the trade, and in later years, the invasion of Ghana by the Moroccans, and the fact that the current ruling family in Morocco, had a military unit called the Black Guard, which consisted of Sub Saharan slaves. This all contributed to the diversity we see today, but at the 400s, not so much diversity going on, I'd assume.

I dunno, you present your case yet you provide no actual sources to back it up. The team making this mod, I'm sure has done their research for this faction, I don't think they'll make any adjustments unless you have the sources to merit such changes, plus this mod has been under development for sometime and i don't think they want to go through all that work.