Favorite faction in RTR VII

[Caligula Caesar]

I can't decide which faction is my favourite. I actually haven't played one which I haven't enjoyed that much, except perhaps the Pergamenes, because their starting position is a bit lame. As for the rest... well, most of what I would have said has been said by others (I've played fun Roman, Carthaginian, Aiakid and Antigonid campaigns), so I'll just throw in a few more The Illyrians have quite a cool location, on the edge of the Greek world. If you play it well, you can capture the rich cities on northern and central Greece, but you'll also have threats all around. They also have a fairly unique army. The Getai also have a pretty cool army, and a tricky starting position. And I found the Aedui a fun and challenging faction to play (especially since Celtiberia and Rome started expanding into Gaul as I was poised to unite it, thanks to me playing on hard).

[demagogos nicator]

I actually haven't played one which I haven't enjoyed that much, except perhaps the Pergamenes, because their starting position is a bit lame.

Maybe, making Bithynian minifaction stronger and more expansionistic would help to make their campaign more enjoyable. In 277 BC NicomedesI of Bythinia allied with Galatians and invited them to Asia Minor to help him fight against his brother Zipoetes II. I would suggest to add a stack of Galatian mercaneries to Bithynians because their starting army is quite pathetic. I know that Kingdom of Bithynia was never a major player but making them stronger could improve the gameplay of Attaid campaign a bit
Bithinia fought several wars with Pergamon with partial success in the end of the 3 and begining off 2 century BC, anyway.

[Caligula Caesar]

What we really need is some Seleucids. But I haven't quite come up with a satisfactory way to make them, yet. We could settle for having the Ptolemies (i.e. Autonomoi Poleis, or maybe the Dynastei) controlling some of the southern Asia Minor settlements.

[demagogos nicator]

What about taking one miniregion from Greece or somwhere and make new province (Lydia/SARDIS) in Asia Minor instead. This province with strong starting armies (pikemen, heavy cavalry, asian/galatian AoRs and elephants) would be ruled by Autonomoi Polies or Dynasties and may represent Seleucid Satrapy of Lydia or whatever was the satrapy based around Sardis called. The "leader" of this minifaction may have a trait Satrap of Lydia.
Just my suggestion. What do you think about it?

[Caligula Caesar]

It's been my preferred solution all along, tbh. But we still have to find the region to cut out

[Maurits]

Regions, regions... if we only had 30 more of them

Maybe we could take out the little island south of Sicily? Nothing ever happens with it anyway.

[Mausolos of Caria]

Regions, regions... if we only had 30 more of them

Maybe we could take out the little island south of Sicily? Nothing ever happens with it anyway.

Malta? I fought a big battle on it just recently on my Carthaginian campaign! Epiros had send a resonable army down there and occupied it (I had, of course, no garrison).

I agree about the Attalids, though. After starting a little campaign with them I realised there are not many options with them. I don't think there's any place for the Seleucids on the map, Nicators idea seems to be the best so far.

[demagogos nicator]

I am also not very happy of cuttimg out any MiR as thay are one of the things which make RTR but I think that idea with the Seleucids is worth it. I would suggest to cut out Meninx (small island south-east of Carthage) and Oreos (I think CHALKIS is enough for Euboia) and make two new Seleucid regions in Asia Minor instead (Sardis and maybe one more MiR).
I would prefer to use rather Dynastei then Polies for Seleucids as their policy was in contradiction to the policy of other factions represented by Autonomoi Polies (I think Seleucids rather tried to suppres the authonomy of the free greek city state than cooperate with them). However, in this cas is needed also to switch the Bithynia to either Barbaroi or Polies.

[Mausolos of Caria]

I am also not very happy of cuttimg out any MiR as thay are one of the things which make RTR but I think that idea with the Seleucids is worth it. I would suggest to cut out Meninx (small island south-east of Carthage) and Oreos (I think CHALKIS is enough for Euboia) and make two new Seleucid regions in Asia Minor instead (Sardis and maybe one more MiR).
I would prefer to use rather Dynastei then Polies for Seleucids as their policy was in contradiction to the policy of other factions represented by Autonomoi Polies (I think Seleucids rather tried to suppres the authonomy of the free greek city state than cooperate with them). However, in this cas is needed also to switch the Bithynia to either Barbaroi or Polies.

I agree with you that especially Meninx isn't necessary because of it's position on the map and then something like Oreos.
For the 2nd Seleucid region I would say maybe Philadelphia or Laodikea?

[DukeCanada]

You're ideas are wonderful and are certainly appreciated, but the RTR in general is very happy with the map at the moment. I think it would be rather inadequate to represent the mighty Seleucid Empire with two meager settlements. The Seleucid Empire has always been one of my favorite factions in RTW and RTR 6, and so in my opinion its only right to represent them in all their awe and glory. The RTRVII team is currently focused on perfecting this last installment, and then moving on to some promising new endeavors.

As a side note, this was actually discussed for a very long time within the RTR team. I believe the decision came down between Sparta, a small Seleucid faction, and the Suebii. I think the team made the right choice with Sparta

[Muizer]

Every map edge that is not an ocean or similar natural barrier is going to cause problems. In these discussions there's always the tendency to "add one more faction". But there's no end to that. Add the Seleucids and when people will play them there's nothing to the south and east of them.

[demagogos nicator]

I fully agree with both of you. However, we did not speak about playlable Seleucid faction but just about unplaylable minifaction witch would be a part of Autonomoi Polies or Autonomoi Dynasties and could represnt Seleucid Satrapy of Lydia. Main purpose of this minifaction would not be to represent the Seleucid Empire in all its glory but make Attalid campaign more interesting. Other way how to reach this goal even without changeing map could be making Bithynian minifaction stronger by beefing up their starting armies.
All this was just good intended suggestion to improve Attalid campaign but even if it stay as it is it still could be a grat fun as we can see from Dukes post in Show your empire thread

Btw. Started Epirote campaign last night and opening battle is really much toughter as it use to be. I played on hard wit huge unit size and managed to win it only on the second try. It was really epic I have use every advantage of terrain and deploy my troops especially carefully and even than the battle was long time ballanced and I was afraid that my fallanx center will broke before I manage to win the battle on the flanks (one unit of Pezhetairoi and Tarentines even started routing). I still sustained significant loses especialy between flanking hoplites/Chaeonians and cavalry but I managed to keep all my elephants, Rhodians and Creetans alive. In short the best start of the campaign I could imagine

[Maurits]

Sounds like an awesome battle dem!

As for making the Attalid campaign more interesting, I think we shouldn't create more regions there. Beefing up the Bythinians or probably some scripted invasions should do the job. I say this because we already need to cut out some MiR's to add the Suebi as last playable faction, the region swapping needs to be kept at a minimum imo.

[Typhon]

I would've preferred the Suebii in the mod instead of Sparta. It's obviously understandable that Sparta was a good choice too, except their insane expansionist attitude on the campaign map.

[Mausolos of Caria]

As demagogos said this is just about the Attalid campaign A scripted invasion by Seleucids or Galatians sounds good, though

And I love having Sparta in it so you can play Cleomenes III/Nabis

[Caligula Caesar]

Just saying... the Suebii are coming I can guarantee it. We've worked out how to code them in, and it is definitely possible.

I am of the opinion that it is downright ahistorical not to have any eastern pressure on the Pergamenes. Having a true Seleucid faction is, of course, out of the question, but that doesn't mean they cannot be represented. A strong minifaction is probably the best solution (I think in 280 BC they can also have Ephesus and the other Asia Minor settlements, actually - the Ptolemies collected them over the years, but I am not sure when exactly. Then we would just need Sardis as their "capital"). Perhaps a few scripted armies can be added, but those generally don't work so well.

I would prefer to use rather Dynastei then Polies for Seleucids as their policy was in contradiction to the policy of other factions represented by Autonomoi Polies (I think Seleucids rather tried to suppres the authonomy of the free greek city state than cooperate with them).

Incidentally, the Seleucid Empire's relations were a bit more complex towards the city-states. Sure, they were an empire, which is a bit of a contradiction to the idea of having autonomous cities ruling over each other. However, they (like all the Macedonian kingdoms, actually) were very keen to be seen in a good light by the city states and to be seen as liberators or benefactors or saviours etc (Polybius 5.89 springs to mind).

[Mausolos of Caria]

Yeah all those Diadochoi promised the Greek poleis freedom and independence... and then burned them down when they liked to

For the territories: I think after Curupeidon officially the greatest part of Asia Minor came under Seleukos' control, but I have no idea how it was after his murder and I'm afraid it won't be easy to find out. From my Uni work about Caria I think to remember Halikarnassos was under Seleucid control for some time after 281 BC, though.

[Maurits]

If that's true, we could add a Seleucid mini-faction around Halikanarsos without having to add any new regions

[demagogos nicator]

Incidentally, the Seleucid Empire's relations were a bit more complex towards the city-states. Sure, they were an empire, which is a bit of a contradiction to the idea of having autonomous cities ruling over each other. However, they (like all the Macedonian kingdoms, actually) were very keen to be seen in a good light by the city states and to be seen as liberators or benefactors or saviours etc (Polybius 5.89 springs to mind).

Interesting gift competition
Ofcourse I agree with your point but having Seleucids in the same minifaction as Rhodes, Athens, Byzantium etc. seems to me a little bit unadequate, anyway.

[Maurits]

I agree that the Autonomos Dynastai would be the best choice, that one is meant to represent separate kingdoms and that kind of factions which couldn't be included individually due to faction slot limitations.