Honor

[akanoez]

there's a lot of talk in the threads that alude to "honor" in order to prove or refute a point.
i am unclear on this word, seems a bit nebulous. can someone please explain concisely what this word means or at least which of these definitions is most adequate and why?

Main Entry: 1hon·or
Pronunciation: 'ä-n&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French honor, from Latin honos, honor
1 a : good name or public esteem : REPUTATION b : a showing of usually merited respect : RECOGNITION <pay honor to our founder>
2 : PRIVILEGE
3 : a person of superior standing -- now used especially as a title for a holder of high office <if Your Honor please>
4 : one whose worth brings respect or fame : CREDIT <an honor to the profession>
5 : the center point of the upper half of an armorial escutcheon
6 : an evidence or symbol of distinction: as a : an exalted title or rank b (1) : BADGE, DECORATION (2) : a ceremonial rite or observance <buried with full military honors> c : an award in a contest or field of competition d archaic : a gesture of deference : BOW e plural (1) : an academic distinction conferred on a superior student (2) : a course of study for superior students supplementing or replacing a regular course
7 : CHASTITY, PURITY <fought fiercely for her honor and her life -- Barton Black>
8 a : a keen sense of ethical conduct : INTEGRITY b : one's word given as a guarantee of performance
9 plural : social courtesies or civilities extended by a host <did the honors at the table>
10 a (1) : an ace, king, queen, jack, or ten especially of the trump suit in bridge (2) : the scoring value of honors held in bridge -- usually used in plural b : the privilege of playing first from the tee in golf

[Dirty Harry]

number 8 is the one people usually refer too.

[akanoez]

hmmmm. but when they use the word it's meaning is continent on context and point of view..i mean ethics itself is a really hard thing to define.

[Garbarsardar]

Moved here since it is an ethics issue... :original:

[bdh]

hmmmm. but when they use the word it's meaning is continent on context and point of view..i mean ethics itself is a really hard thing to define.

Try 8 b - thats a universal definition of ethical conduct.

[Dirty Harry]

8a and 8b are linked in that even though good "ethical conduct" is confusing and hard to define in today's heady world of united nations sponsered moral relativism, like bdh says, if your ethical conduct is evaluated to the point that your word can be used as a guarantee, you are judged by others to be an honourable fellow.

another definition: would you buy a used car from that man?

[MaximiIian]

Ah, but how can you accurately define "ethical conduct", when so many people have differing views on what is right and wrong?

[bdh]

Ah, but how can you accurately define "ethical conduct", when so many people have differing views on what is right and wrong?

Doesn't matter, 8b has absolutely nothing to do with ethical conduct. Who cares about ethical conduct in terms of honor? You can attempt to disvalue honor all you want, but honor will always be fulfilling one's word. Murderous nazis and boyscouts can both be honorable. It makes little difference what one beleives.

one's word given as a guarantee of performance

?? 8a has very little to do with 8b - the connection, as Dirty Harry explained, is quite inconsequential.

My ethics change depending on my mood, but usually it goes like this:
good for me = good.
bad for me = bad.

Even so, if you say you will do something, do you do it?

[MaximiIian]

Even so, if you say you will do something, do you do it?

Depends if I want to do it, which depends on what "it" is.

[Gwendylyn]

Find an ethical system and follow it. A good start would be utilitarianism.

Ethical systems are there to create a framework for discovering right and wrong, and explaining why, without contradicting itself or falling apart under intellectual criticism. And no, people do not just suddenly create "ethical systems", giving each person their own system and moral relativism. Most people act in ways that follow no systematic approach, often contradictory, because they act in ways that benefit themselves certain times and ways that benefit others in other times. An honorable person, according to definition 8, would be a person whose conduct fully follows a specific ethical system.

When person A follows ethical system X and person B follows ethical system Y, they are both honorable because their actions are true to their system of conduct. When X and Y contradict (think: is it honorable to kill a man who will murder someone the next day, or try to reform him and let him go free?) then we have subjective opinions on whether that person did the right thing, but we can still say that person was honorable.

That's specifics. When you go into common usage of a word, like any words, interpretations of a definition vary. It's not exactly pragmatic in everyday speech to determine if someone is honorable based on analyzing their ethical system. That kind of judgement is purely subjective.

[MaximiIian]

My ethics change depending on my mood, but usually it goes like this:
good for me = good.
bad for me = bad.

[Gwendylyn]

My ethics change depending on my mood, but usually it goes like this:
good for me = good.
bad for me = bad.

Which is why I said:

And no, people do not just suddenly create "ethical systems", giving each person their own system and moral relativism. Most people act in ways that follow no systematic approach, often contradictory

An ethical system is just that: a system. Utilitarianism is a system that tells us to act in ways that will produce the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people, for example. Since you stated your 'ethics' changes based on your mood and therefore contradictory, you don't have an objective ethical system, so your ethical conduct is only happenstance, and therefore you aren't honorable (in the sense of that specific definition).

If you do by other general use defnitions than this all changes. If we get rid of "ethical conduct" and all its intricacies, then it's exactly what bdh is saying: backing up your words and philosophy by action is honorable.

[akanoez]

If you do by other general use defnitions than this all changes. If we get rid of "ethical conduct" and all its intricacies, then it's exactly what bdh is saying: backing up your words and philosophy by action is honorable.

"honorable" meaning "worth bestowing honor on?" so its about recognition?

[Gwendylyn]

"honorable" meaning "worth bestowing honor on?" so its about recognition?

I suppose you can say that, just like the adjective "beautiful" means someone has to recognize and judge it as beautiful before it gets that description. That's a moot point. A person could bestow honor upon themself just as easily as needing to get it from an outside source.

[LSJ]

The definitions of honour depends on your point of view, and what dictionary definition you prefer.
To me honour is a person's perception of what is ethical conduct. If you believe that saving a child from a burning house is a good thing to do, it is an honourable act. An honourable person is someone who's acts your ethics agree with. If you like people who are friendly, they are honourable people. Someone who wants to steal your bike because of greed is dishonourable perhaps.
That is my idea of honour at least.

[Cluny the Scourge]

Honour means that after defeating your opponent and cutting his head off, you have to bow to the corpse. Also, you aren't allowed to crap down its neck to show what you think of them.

[MaximiIian]

Honour means that after defeating your opponent and cutting his head off, you have to bow to the corpse. Also, you aren't allowed to crap down its neck to show what you think of them.

Can you eat it to gain the enemy's strength instead of using it as a toilet?
j/k