Besieged AI spawns elite units.

[jodelofcourt]

Hi,Playing a campaign as ERE on med/med and twice now i've beseiged the Turks capital when it only showed 5 0r 6 units inside,but next turn they sally out w/giant army/mostly elites w/silver chevrons.How can they spawn under seige? Three of the 6 units were generals if that makes a difference? I have BC 2.3.2

[wudang_clown]

That's BC's garrison script at work.

We assumed that it is very hard for a besieger to completely cut off a city from any reinforcements and supplies, and capitals receive special support, obviously.

[Ichon]

That's BC's garrison script at work.

We assumed that it is very hard for a besieger to completely cut off a city from any reinforcements and supplies, and capitals receive special support, obviously.

I'd love this script for Capitols and any cities with ports but everywhere else I'm a bit skeptical even if it does prevent easy captures from stupid AI blunders leaving a border city with 1 garrison. It does get annoying in a city up in the mountains with 6 unit garrison doubling their army.

[jodelofcourt]

Well OK thats cool. I should have researched this better,and not post a redundant thread. Thanx Wudung sorry to take up your time. It is a good script though,makes it more of a challenge.

[wudang_clown]

I'd love this script for Capitols and any cities with ports but everywhere else I'm a bit skeptical even if it does prevent easy captures from stupid AI blunders leaving a border city with 1 garrison. It does get annoying in a city up in the mountains with 6 unit garrison doubling their army.

I'm not sure which city are you referring to, but most of BC settlements were actually important centers, not a podunk towns, thus the defence, although I agree that garrison script can be adjusted better than it is - it's possible we will try to optimise it.

Well OK thats cool. I should have researched this better,and not post a redundant thread. Thanx Wudung sorry to take up your time. It is a good script though,makes it more of a challenge.

It's not redundant, surely not.

[Ichon]

I'm not sure which city are you referring to, but most of BC settlements were actually important centers, not a podunk towns, thus the defence, although I agree that garrison script can be adjusted better than it is - it's possible we will try to optimise it.
It's not redundant, surely not.

Of course on the scale of the map every regional city/castle was chosen because it was one of the larger/more important centers but the history of this era is littered with captured cities because reinforcements couldn't arrive in time. On the other hand there were many cities such as you suggest so I am just hoping there will be an optimization based on ports and factional capitols or huge cities so there is not additional garrison every single time. It just makes battles longer and more drawn out plus rewards spies and siege artillery which is perhaps the intent but sometimes it just makes me bored of a campaign earlier.

I'd rather re-emergent factions and some scripted rebellions to slow down expansion.

[jodelofcourt]

The city is Konya and its only one of three cities they have left. I backed off because I can't field an elite army but Armenia has hit that city several turns and they can't take it either. Keeps the game interesting. Even though the're still my enemy the Turks are keeping a powerful Armenia occupied instead of them hitting me which is inevitable I surmise. So your script is a good addition to this mod. Nice work!

[zburanuki]

you can use trebuchets or catapults and attack at once the city and not give them time to call for reinforcements (extra garrison and other field armies).i play as the byzantines too and siege machines helped me a lot to conquer quick very important and rich cities with that script.

[nein]

stand near the city and attack any army that comes near it... if you destroy both armies you can take the empty city in the same turn

[jodelofcourt]

I think it pertains more to capitols or large important cities because I beseiged several towns and a castle(wooden palisade) and the script wasn't activated.

[k/t]

Garrison scripts should spit out some militia units, not heavy duty veterans.

Can those free units then leave town? One huge complaint about TATW 3.0 is that the over-the-top garrison script creates a whole bunch of units who then are free to leave the town and attack the player, which is not really the purpose of a garrison script. A destroy_units script should be included, but apparently that requires free unit slots in the EDU. Or maybe one or two units could be made that are common to all factions - "Levied Townspeople", or something like that - that are spawned by the garrison script.

[wudang_clown]

Garrison scripts should spit out some militia units, not heavy duty veterans.

The fact is that every important settlement had a smaller or bigger garrison comprised (unsurprisingly) of professionals. They were supported by militia, sure, but changing the script to spawn only militia would be artificial, that's why we won't do this.

One huge complaint about TATW 3.0 is that the over-the-top garrison script creates a whole bunch of units who then are free to leave the town and attack the player, which is not really the purpose of a garrison script.

And what TATW and its fans have to do with BC? Is BC garrison script "over-the-top"? Have you actually checked that?

[k/t]

The fact is that every important settlement had a smaller or bigger garrison comprised (unsurprisingly) of professionals. They were supported by militia, sure, but changing the script to spawn only militia would be artificial, that's why we won't do this.

Hey, that makes sense. I will talk to PB about it for the next RR/RC.

I don't know if the BC garrison script is over-the-top, because I haven't tried it, and I never said it was. I mentioned TA because the giant garrisons spawned in 3.1 are then free to leave the city, which is unrealistic and annoying.

[Sadreddine]

The fact is that every important settlement had a smaller or bigger garrison comprised (unsurprisingly) of professionals. They were supported by militia, sure, but changing the script to spawn only militia would be artificial, that's why we won't do this.

Why don't try the middle road? Some militia, some elite. Sounds more reasonable to me, and the AI can be sometimes annoying when over-protected by strong scripts (money and garrisons).

I understand that the AI needs to be more challenging, but sometimes heavy scripts make it a bit annoying, more than just challenging.

[nein]

their elite forces are lightly armored... tirpan azaps I think? Horse archers shred them to pieces, the ERE can recruit them with ease.

[Ichon]

Does the script change if other faction takes the capitol or does it remain on that city SS long as AI faction controls it? Just last I played I swear it wasn't capitol city that had script but it was a former capitol of Crusaders.

[wudang_clown]

Commands in each scripted garrison are executed under certain conditions, and one of them is I_SettlementOwner settlement = faction. Most of settlements have only one garrison (spawned only if certain one faction is an owner), though there are two exceptions: Jerusalem and Damascus. Jerusalem has two scripted garrisons - one for the KoJ and one for the Ayyubids. I guess you've seen a garrison spawned under for the Ayyubids.

[Iguanaonastick]

I seem to recall the Turks mostly spawning levy units in the garrison script... lots of those javelin guys. The frontiersmen, I think. Some good units like Tirpan Azaps too, but nothing over the top.

One weird thing about the garrison script, though, is that it keeps firing every turn until there's a 20 strong stack in the city. The script makes sense because bit cities and fortresses would always be garrisoned in reality even if the AI is too stupid to keep some units there. But the entire garrison should spawn at once, not in increments of 6 units a turn. Reinforcing cities under siege was a lot more complicated than that and is far better represented by the AI counter-attacking with its normal stacks. (And the AI is pretty good at doing that anyway.) Besides, not all settlements should end up with a full stack of defenders.

Is it possible to make the garrison script fire only once? Or is this an engine limit thing where you can't check if it's the first turn of a siege or not?

[k/t]

In other mods it creates all the units at the same time, so it's certainly possible.

[wudang_clown]

Okay, I'll improve the script. It won't be spawning so many elites.