spanish 15k- which one is better

[joaltmon]

I wanted to try out a pike and shot army, but are 2 extra muskets better than pavise cbows?
1.
4 tercio
2 dismounted conquestidores(sp?)
4 knights of santiago
4 mounted cbows(1 chevron each)
1 gen bodyguard
5 musketeers
or
3 muskets +2 pavise cbows

any other advice is appreciated!


thank you,
Joaltmon

[ImperialAndre]

musketers are way more effective than pavise xbows so dont bother taking them. if you stretch your guns in 2 lines and then put them on skirmish mode they will fire very fast the first rank kneel and then the second rank fires rather than having your guns rotating.

the advantage with skirmish mode is that enemy infantry will not catch them and musketers run faster than heavy infantry. but you do need to beware of enemy ligth cavalry you have to run your guns back in time othervise you lose lots of men and they might rout.

i would also suggest that you take mounted conquistadors instead of knigths of santiago because conquistadors are faster than knigths and have very good stamina, they are also cheaper to take and that is great.

4 pikes is not enough so drop the mounted xbows and get 4 extra pikes 4 more tercio pikes you want to stack your pikes you stretch out 4 pikes 2 ranks deep and then oyu place the other 4 units of pikes 2 ranks deep directly behind the second rank, you now got twice as many pikes in the same area.

your army should be like this in a 15k as spain and wanna do pike and shot.

1 generals bodyguard late period.
4 mounted conquistadors.
8 tercio pikemen.
5 musketers
1 pike militia
and then as many dismounted conquistadors with equipment upgrades you can afford. i think you should afford 4 not sure tho. place them behind the pikes on the flank so they are ready to assist your cav and prevent your enemy infantry to flank the pikes.

when your muskets run away make sure to stretch them out again in a safe area individualy stretch out 1 unit so that they keep killing so that not just because 1 unit of guns is out of position you also move the other 4 muskets that are safe.

the pike militia is there for fodder so if your oponent have guns as well you can move the militia up and then move up your guns every kill you get reduses the enemy firepower and if he dosent have guns he is forced to come to you muskets outrange everything else and will piece any armour!

then just move the pikes up front again to soak up the arrows while your guns annahilate the enemy missile trops.

[joaltmon]

But the knights have more charge, don't they?

[ImperialAndre]

yes knigth of santiago has a better charge but conquistadors are overall more versitale and they usaly defeat other knigths in melee especialy when supported by other troops like pikes swords or guns and against infantry the charge only hurts if the cavalry is fresh and after cav vs cav engagment knigths of santiago is very tired while conqistadors are winded and conqistadors charge still hurts to enemy heavy infantry granted you should stay away from spears/pikes and 2 handed weapons sence these units are better vs cav.

i am not saying knigths of santiago is not useful i am just saying theres a reason conquistadors are late period and knigths of santiago are high period.
Its all up to you what you wanna bring but i have used tercio many times and conquistadors is what i prefer they get to places faster, i can do hit and run and sence they are faster they take fewer casulties, knigths of santiago is still better than chivalric knigths but also more expensive.

in a tercio cavalry is only meant to support the infantry while the pikes and guns and swords do the killing while in high period hard hitting cav are meant to be the decisive.

[Blaze of Macedon]

Never take bolts and arrows to a gun fight buddy. Musketeers are always better than xbows, plus they are cheap.

And usually battles are 6/2 so i don't think you're allowed to take the 4 mounted xbows. Even if you are i'd take jinets over them for the supporting cav roles.

As for the heavy cav - i agree with Andre. In this army your cav is pretty much for defensive purposes so you're not gonna take them to charge at the enemy - but rather countercharge his cav.

For a pure pike and shot i'd go for:

- 1 GB
- 4 Conquistadores
- 6 Tercios
- 5 Musketeers
- 4 Dismounted Conquistadores

Plenty of room for upgrades there.

If you want more flexibility and if you like commanding jav cav / HA take 2 jinets with 3 conquistadores (i assume 6/2) and 2 dismounted conquistadores. This leaves room for one extra musketeers unit so take 6 of those guys.

Also bare in mind that Portugal has the "uber" army here. The Avetnuros give them the edge over the Spanish. But in general you can use pike and shot with any army that has some solid pikemen and has access to at least arqs. Heck i even find hand gunners useful. Personaly i enjoy using the HRE for a modified version of pike and shot (have plenty of battles uploaded with the HRE on youtube, for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZyyB...ure=plpp_video) but France would be a contender too.