New to game, diplomacy/alliance questions?

[CaptBanjo]

Hey all, I'm new to the total war series and new to the forum. I came to M2TW from Civ4 BTS and I have some questions about diplomacy with the AI. I love weaving diplomatic webs as much as pounding skulls on the battlefield, so I really want to get my diplomacy on point. In my first attempt at a long campaign (Hungary m/m) I had alliances with Papal States, Poland, and HRE early on. Venetians attacked Zagreb, I retaliated, pushed them out of the mainland, and occupied Ragusa (I think) and Venice. About 20 turns later, my alliance with Poland had dissolved and HRE has attacked Venice. This is actually ok because I am planning to swipe Bologna from HRE as a result, but this brought up a lot of questions.

1) Is there any way to find out your current standing with another faction other than "enemy" or "ally" at the diplomacy tab?
2) Do alliances only last a certain length of time and what are the best ways to maintain them?
3) If you are allied with two factions and faction A attacks faction B, is it wise to break the alliance with faction A to save face with faction B and other factions? Common sense tells me yes, but I am not sure of the effects in the game if you keep both alliances.
4) Are some factions just destined to fight each other at some point?

I'd love a good source on the AI's diplomatic tendencies or something like that if it exists around here. Thanks!

[Drachos]

I don't know the first question.

2. No. They can last if you maintain them. Marry your princesses to their faction heirs, give them florins, and sometimes give them a region which you don't need
3. You must break the alliance with one faction. You can't stay neutral. Break up with the faction that you think will be the wisest, and keep a strong alliance with one or two factions at a time.
4. Yes..Just a matter of time. Like: Turks & Byzantines, Russia & Poland, France & Milan (Milan backstabbers )

[eXistenZ]

1), normally in the faction tab, if you hover over the faction emblem it should show (with examples as: good- outstanding - poor - soso-...). if you enter negotiations with a diplomat, you will also see the standings on the side of the screen

2)sometimes they can last a long time. for example, in my current venice campaign (retrofit mod), im over 100 turns allied to HRE. occasional giving of gifts will help maintaining it/ sometimes the AI will betray you for no apparent reason

3) not sure. i allways try not to make too much alliances, because eventually you will have to expand (you need 45/100 regions to win), and if your allies go again eachother you have to choose, hurting your reputation.

4) faction that are close to each other will very often go to war, but sometimes they form an aliance. Milan is a good example of a faction that likes to make alliances, but likes even more to backstab people.

For a lot of guides on TW games, check here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52410

[CaptBanjo]

1), normally in the faction tab, if you hover over the faction emblem it should show (with examples as: good- outstanding - poor - soso-...). if you enter negotiations with a diplomat, you will also see the standings on the side of the screen

2)sometimes they can last a long time. for example, in my current venice campaign (retrofit mod), im over 100 turns allied to HRE. occasional giving of gifts will help maintaining it/ sometimes the AI will betray you for no apparent reason

3) not sure. i allways try not to make too much alliances, because eventually you will have to expand (you need 45/100 regions to win), and if your allies go again eachother you have to choose, hurting your reputation.

4) faction that are close to each other will very often go to war, but sometimes they form an aliance. Milan is a good example of a faction that likes to make alliances, but likes even more to backstab people.

For a lot of guides on TW games, check here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52410

The "hover over" effect is just what I was looking for. I missed that and I have been sending my diplomats from one job to another without any regard for maintaining my status and then finding my closest diplomat several turns away when I need to make something happen diplomatically.

[CaptBanjo]

I don't know the first question.

2. No. They can last if you maintain them. Marry your princesses to their faction heirs, give them florins, and sometimes give them a region which you don't need
3. You must break the alliance with one faction. You can't stay neutral. Break up with the faction that you think will be the wisest, and keep a strong alliance with one or two factions at a time.
4. Yes..Just a matter of time. Like: Turks & Byzantines, Russia & Poland, France & Milan (Milan backstabbers )

This has given me the idea of keeping a diplomat near each of my alliances should I want to maintain them or break them quickly within a turn. This info is very helpful to what I trying to accomplish diplomatically. I also have a new batch of daughters coming soon and I think I will dress'em up real nice and send them north to marry some nice polish boys.

[Silent Assassin]

Hey all, I'm new to the total war series and new to the forum. I came to M2TW from Civ4 BTS and I have some questions about diplomacy with the AI. I love weaving diplomatic webs as much as pounding skulls on the battlefield, so I really want to get my diplomacy on point. In my first attempt at a long campaign (Hungary m/m) I had alliances with Papal States, Poland, and HRE early on. Venetians attacked Zagreb, I retaliated, pushed them out of the mainland, and occupied Ragusa (I think) and Venice. About 20 turns later, my alliance with Poland had dissolved and HRE has attacked Venice. This is actually ok because I am planning to swipe Bologna from HRE as a result, but this brought up a lot of questions.

1) Is there any way to find out your current standing with another faction other than "enemy" or "ally" at the diplomacy tab?
2) Do alliances only last a certain length of time and what are the best ways to maintain them?
3) If you are allied with two factions and faction A attacks faction B, is it wise to break the alliance with faction A to save face with faction B and other factions? Common sense tells me yes, but I am not sure of the effects in the game if you keep both alliances.
4) Are some factions just destined to fight each other at some point?

I'd love a good source on the AI's diplomatic tendencies or something like that if it exists around here. Thanks!

First I would like to welcome you to TWC, you will see that this forum is a great place even more for TW game fans.

Secondo: Please take the time to read through this guide: and you will also find a lot of information about M2TW here on this Link

1- Using diplomats and engaging them in the diplomatic negotiating screen will often give you the information needed, then again the diplomacy tab will give you some information also. i.e. Don;t try to ally yourself with an enemy of on of your allies. Often at the begining of your trun you will get a opo-up screen that will say Diplonatic chnages or something like that it will show you what new like alliances, factions at war with each other and more.

2- If you like a smooth and good diplomacy I would suggest you always play on Medium for the campaign and Very hard for battles (if you like hard battles). Alliances on higher levels of difficulty like Hard and VH, you need to work harder to maintain them as it's scrioted in game that if you don't maintain your relationship level will go down, on medium it doesn't do that and I must say that IMO I prefer it like that. Now we are talking about Vanilla M2TW, if you are playing modifications it's another story.

3- Well you dont have a choice you have to chose on or the other, to help you chose you need to consider a few things like: Where do you want to expand, who is the strongest, who seems more likle to not backstab you, etc... By breaking your alliance you will only loose some points in your relationship with the faction you didn't choose, but you wont lose any reputation points.

4- Well yes.... but it can be different from a player to another like it is from a game to another.

- All Pagan factions will fight Catholics
- Milan is the most treachourus faction in the game, make me think of the Greeks in RTW.
- English and French will often fight.
- The Danes will often be at war with HRE
- HRE is the faction less liked by the Papal State from the start, and more....


Hope this helps you if you have anymore questions, before asking them please refer to the guides I've posted in my post.

Regards

SA

[John Doe]

3- ... By breaking your alliance you will only loose some points in your relationship with the faction you didn't choose, but you wont lose any reputation points.

Yes you will. Not as much as attacking an ally but you will loose some points on global reputation which ever faction you choose. The loss is as much as nullifying an alliance through diplomacy (wiki for more info on rep)

[Mausolos of Caria]

Yes you will. Not as much as attacking an ally but you will loose some points on global reputation which ever faction you choose. The loss is as much as nullifying an alliance through diplomacy (wiki for more info on rep)

Yep and your relation the now former ally gets worse while the relation to the side which is still your ally doesn't improve... evil Total War

[Drachos]

First I would like to welcome you to TWC, you will see that this forum is a great place even more for TW game fans.

Secondo: Please take the time to read through this guide: and you will also find a lot of information about M2TW here on this Link

1- Using diplomats and engaging them in the diplomatic negotiating screen will often give you the information needed, then again the diplomacy tab will give you some information also. i.e. Don;t try to ally yourself with an enemy of on of your allies. Often at the begining of your trun you will get a opo-up screen that will say Diplonatic chnages or something like that it will show you what new like alliances, factions at war with each other and more.

2- If you like a smooth and good diplomacy I would suggest you always play on Medium for the campaign and Very hard for battles (if you like hard battles). Alliances on higher levels of difficulty like Hard and VH, you need to work harder to maintain them as it's scrioted in game that if you don't maintain your relationship level will go down, on medium it doesn't do that and I must say that IMO I prefer it like that. Now we are talking about Vanilla M2TW, if you are playing modifications it's another story.

3- Well you dont have a choice you have to chose on or the other, to help you chose you need to consider a few things like: Where do you want to expand, who is the strongest, who seems more likle to not backstab you, etc... By breaking your alliance you will only loose some points in your relationship with the faction you didn't choose, but you wont lose any reputation points.

4- Well yes.... but it can be different from a player to another like it is from a game to another.

- All Pagan factions will fight Catholics
- Milan is the most treachourus faction in the game, make me think of the Greeks in RTW.
- English and French will often fight.
- The Danes will often be at war with HRE
- HRE is the faction less liked by the Papal State from the start, and more....


Hope this helps you if you have anymore questions, before asking them please refer to the guides I've posted in my post.

Regards

SA

I see what you did here.

I forgot to say that AI sometimes is bugged so it can attack you for an unspecified reason (read -no reason)

[Silent Assassin]

Yes you will. Not as much as attacking an ally but you will loose some points on global reputation which ever faction you choose. The loss is as much as nullifying an alliance through diplomacy (wiki for more info on rep)

The amount of Global you are loosing is more then minor that is why I'm saying you don't loose any . Having that event happen in a game never changed my Global Rep, well what my eye sees: Before Rep[utation Immaculate after that event again and still immaculate.

I see what you did here.

I forgot to say that AI sometimes is bugged so it can attack you for an unspecified reason (read -no reason)

Agreed but if you look at the Desc. files regarding the factions standings between each other you will see that some of them are scripted from the start to be less friendly with some compared with others.

[CaptBanjo]

Preset diplomacy standings in spoiler tag.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

>>>> start of diplomacy section <<<<

faction_standings england, -0.2 france, scotland
faction_standings england, -1.0 slave
faction_standings scotland, -0.2 england
faction_standings scotland, 0.2 france
faction_standings scotland, -1.0 slave
faction_standings france, -0.2 england
faction_standings france, 0.2 scotland
faction_standings france, -1.0 slave
faction_standings venice, -0.2 byzantium
faction_standings venice, -0.45 milan, hre
faction_standings venice, -1.0 slave
faction_standings milan, -0.4 venice, hre
faction_standings milan, -1.0 slave
faction_standings hre, -0.2 poland
faction_standings hre, -0.45 venice, milan
faction_standings hre, -1.0 slave
faction_standings poland, -0.2 russia, hre
faction_standings poland, 0.2 hungary
faction_standings poland, -1.0 slave
faction_standings hungary, -0.2 byzantium
faction_standings hungary, 0.2 poland
faction_standings hungary, -1.0 slave
faction_standings spain, 0.2 portugal
faction_standings spain, -0.85 moors
faction_standings spain, -1.0 slave
faction_standings sicily, -0.2 moors
faction_standings sicily, -0.45 byzantium
faction_standings sicily, -1.0 slave
faction_standings denmark, -1.0 slave
faction_standings portugal, 0.2 spain
faction_standings portugal, -0.85 moors
faction_standings portugal, -1.0 slave
faction_standings papal_states, -0.45 hre
faction_standings papal_states, 0.2 england, portugal, poland, hungary
faction_standings papal_states, -1.0 slave
faction_standings moors, -0.2 sicily
faction_standings moors, -0.85 spain, portugal
faction_standings moors, -1.0 slave
faction_standings byzantium, -0.2 hungary, venice
faction_standings byzantium, -0.45 sicily
faction_standings byzantium, -0.85 turks
faction_standings byzantium, -1.0 slave
faction_standings turks, -0.65 egypt
faction_standings turks, -0.8 byzantium
faction_standings egypt, -0.6 turks
faction_standings egypt, -0.6 slave

I am assuming a "0.0" would represent a completely even/neutral faction standing and "-1.0" or lower would be "at war" (as all factions have a -1.0 with the slave faction). Some factions do start out with grudges, otherwise everyone is on a clean slate from the beginning I guess.