Two handed weapons

[Drachos]

So for what do you really use them? I figured out that playing Lithuania in the Teutonic campaign can be relatively easy using those Two handed weapons.
For what do you use them? ( And yes Kingdoms expansion fixes the bug so you can engage them with other infantry toe to toe, and without a need to flank with them.

[Dredd]

I'm not sure if I'm utilizing them properly, but I believe they're good "shock & awe" & flanking troops. They make good charging troops because of their charge bonus and their attack is very high, however, they are poor defensive units due to their low armor rating, you're better off with town militia than two handed to defend a area. They are the infantry equivalent to Light Cavalry minus the defense.

[Blaze of Macedon]

In Kingdoms these guys are better than your shield infantry, on average of course, so i'd just used them as i would "normal" infantry where their stats were ok. The only difference is that you need to take care to use their charge bonus and charge them at the enemy line.

[Drachos]

But you have some of them who have like 16 attack and 13 defense, so it's not so bad

[Aeratus]

Compared to one-handed shield infantry...
- Two handers generally are worse at flanking because they move slower than shield infantry.
- Two handers are much better than shield infantry for charging head on.
- Two handers can hold the line against cavalry charges much better than shield infantry, due to the AP bonus and their high stats (this is because two-handers have higher stats than shield infantry to balance their slower attack animation, but when units hit each other head on during a charge, only the absolute value of the stats count, and animation speed makes no difference).

Therefore, the best way to use two handers is to place them in the center line, which should be charging the enemy if possible. Meanwhile, shield infantry should be the flankers.

There's a misconception here that two handers should be used for flanking while shield infantry should be the main line. This misconception is based on how two handers were actually used in history. However, because of M2's stats system and combat mechanics, the role of two handers compared to one-handers should be the opposite of their historical roles.

[D00d]

Compared to one-handed shield infantry...
- Two handers generally are worse at flanking because they move slower than shield infantry.

Are you sure about this? From my experience there isn't much diference between infantry speed. You have your standard speed, faster light inf and insanely fast Aztecs. I didn't notice any difference between one and two handed infantry.

[EP!anastasi]

I (try to) use them mostly as shock troops... CHAAAARGE!!!

[The Useless Member]

They usually don't have a shield, have a high charge and melee attack, but I think the defense is kind of crappy.

[Drachos]

Can anyone tell me about the bug in vanilla MIITW?

[Blaze of Macedon]

Can anyone tell me about the bug in vanilla MIITW?

It's a bug with the animation speed of 2h units - it gets interrupted and makes these guys suck.

[Ferdiad]

Its fixed in most mods though.

[Aeratus]

Kingdoms "fixed" the bug not by revising the animation, but by giving two-handers higher stats. Incidentally, this made two-handers much better in charging and taking charges than one-handers, since only the attack/defense values matter in these situations.

[Blaze of Macedon]

^^ Higher stats AND AP attack to most of them (HRE units in particular seemed worthles in vanilla and are "uber" in Kingdoms)

[Drachos]

How can y play the HRE and get two handed units in Teutonic campaign? I can't, and in Custom Battles there arent any

[Aeratus]

How can y play the HRE and get two handed units in Teutonic campaign? I can't, and in Custom Battles there arent any

HRE is unlockable by beating the game or editing the files.

HRE is amazing because of their forlorn hope unit, which is the best infantry in the campaign. They easily rip Dismounted Ritterbruders to shreds.

[Silverheart]

Two-hander troops are reliable in Kingdoms campaigns, since they were powered up with higher stats there.
In vanilla it´s a different story, though. There, they work best as chargers.

All in all, I prefer to use them as hit-and die troops - sending them in en masse to charge the enemy head on and kill as many of them as possible.
If you´re lucky, that initial charge will kill enough enemies to scare them into rout - and if not, I always keep some "normal" infantry right behind to provide additional weight and support to the fray.

[Surgeon]

Most 2h troops are better than shielded troops in the same weight category, but because of their lack of shield the 2h are usually more vulnerable to missiles. Thus with 2h your best option is to close as quick as you can if you're up against missile troops.

[Drachos]

I love to play as Lithuania because of the dangers, and a nice unit roster

[PrestigeX]

In kingdoms they're better - still, I never found them to be particularly awlful in Vanilla -- but I know a lot of people've complained about 2-handers and pikes in particular.

Anyway, the best examples of 2-hander usefullness to me derives from the lower-end variety. Troops like billmen, woodsmen, religious fanatics, berdiche axemen (they're like 3-400 bucks , low upkeep), Mid-eastern Halberd militia, croat axemen...

all these troops that come with low'ish upkeeps, easy to get , cheap etc. Using them with spear troops, in the 2nd line and countercharges , flanks, or engages after spearmen absorb charges... Following cavalry who're engaging other cavalry,,, etc.

Alot of players will totally disagree with this, feeling that 2handers are especially horrible if they're lower grade troops.

The trouble with 2handers I find comes from these units like .. Dismounted Gothic Knights, or Dismounted Noble Knights (wih the poleaxe) - they have very expensive recruit and high upkeep, you expect them to be super-duper and they take quite a number of casualties - then become harder to retrain - and just too expensive for their role...

better to spend that cost on other unit types.

[tianzong]

In kingdoms they're better - still, I never found them to be particularly awlful in Vanilla -- but I know a lot of people've complained about 2-handers and pikes in particular.

Anyway, the best examples of 2-hander usefullness to me derives from the lower-end variety. Troops like billmen, woodsmen, religious fanatics, berdiche axemen (they're like 3-400 bucks , low upkeep), Mid-eastern Halberd militia, croat axemen...

all these troops that come with low'ish upkeeps, easy to get , cheap etc. Using them with spear troops, in the 2nd line and countercharges , flanks, or engages after spearmen absorb charges... Following cavalry who're engaging other cavalry,,, etc.

Alot of players will totally disagree with this, feeling that 2handers are especially horrible if they're lower grade troops.

The trouble with 2handers I find comes from these units like .. Dismounted Gothic Knights, or Dismounted Noble Knights (wih the poleaxe) - they have very expensive recruit and high upkeep, you expect them to be super-duper and they take quite a number of casualties - then become harder to retrain - and just too expensive for their role...

better to spend that cost on other unit types.

YOU COULD also change the unit costs in the descr_unit file you know.
I know that it is cheating but you don't have to worry about unit costs anymore.
I agree that the fun of playing it will be over but then again i only said that you COULD do it.