New unit idea for Sultanate of Rum

[Hawkerx]

This soldiers name is Qapıkulu soldiers. This guys history first born Seljuk of rums time to Ottoman empire early times. His standart armoured units and weapon masters. His seljuk and ottoman armys standart soldiers. His not timaroit or janissary his giving a mony from sultan.
This guys have two unit types

1- Qapikulu soldiers(Turkish : Kapikulu neferi) have shield sword and spear. [a janissarys use bow and sword two tandem soldiers in army)
2- Qapikulu Cavalary [Turkish : Kapikulu süvarisi] Have shield spear and cavalary sword

His pictures : From Conquest 1453 film.Filmmakers accordance with all of the soldiers made ​​history.
Qapıkulu guys wear red clothes and armor.

















Please makers add this guys a mod.

[Farwest]

Neither Qapıkulu soldiers nor Janissaries had any part within the Seljuks. Qapıkulu organization founded by Sultan Murad I (his reign 1360-1389), but it was effective during the 16th century.
To discuss Janissary is also meaningless, they have nothing with the Seljuk Sultanate of Rum. To implement these in the mod are unhistorical.

[Dago Red]

I agree, these units are approximately 2 centuries off the correct time frame, give or take. Remember BC starts in 1170!
There is a realistic Rum roster thread around here somewhere...

[Hawkerx]

Janissary's established 1360's but exist in the mode.

[Hawkerx]

And this guy's real name not Qapikulu I made it. Because this guys not janissary but sultan's standart soldier in the film. Sultan giving money this guys. I thought then and I find this name.

Acctually I think sultanete rum no have a standart unit. Seljuk units very light a many numbers or very armoured a tiny numbers . No have standart like byzatine. TI think this guys very cool and fill this gap.

[Ichon]

Probably for accuracy if mod goes now to 1300 only Janissary will be removed.

[Savoyard]

Aren't Kapikulu just an evolved form of Ghilman?

[Farwest]

Aren't Kapikulu just an evolved form of Ghilman?

No, Kapıkulu means, "servant of the gate" or "warden/keeper of the gate". Ghilman has Arabic roots, but Kapıkulu is a very Turkish word. It was the name of Sultan's personal army. Kapıkulu was an organization, which had Janissaries, Artillery crews, Sipahi's and Sultan's other specific household cavalry and infantry within.

Probably for accuracy if mod goes now to 1300 only Janissary will be removed.

Yes, that is why they should be removed.

And that is the reason for me, not to play Seljuk Sultanate of Rum for the sake of historical accuracy.

[Farwest]

Kapıkulu was an organization, which had Janissaries, Artillery crews, Sipahi's and Sultan's other specific household cavalry and infantry within.

In addition to my words, their recruitment ways were more complex than Ghulams; solely the Kapıkulu Sipahis recruited mainly from Turkmen (Turcomans) rather than its devshirme (christian) subjects, after Mehmed II they were entirely recruited from Turkmens.
In this way, they were not Ghulams.

And considering Grenadiers (Humbaracı) and Artillery (Topçu Ocağı) were also Kapıkulu, they were rather different than Ghulams also by system.

[Ansar Warrior]

Aren't Kapikulu just an evolved form of Ghilman?

No Kapikulu are not slaves but usually sons of nobles trained from boyhood to serve the Sultan as his first bodyguards and field protection.

For loyalty issues these are obviously the sons of nobles who are closely connected to he Sultan through family ties and tribal preference.

That's what I remember from my research any way.

Kapikulu therefore are non existent before the creation of the Ottoman state and the crowning of the Sultan.

[Farwest]

No Kapikulu are not slaves but usually sons of nobles trained from boyhood to serve the Sultan as his first bodyguards and field protection.

For loyalty issues these are obviously the sons of nobles who are closely connected to he Sultan through family ties and tribal preference.

@Ansar Warrior,
please read my message again:

It was the name of Sultan's personal army. Kapıkulu was a large organization, which had Janissaries, Artillery crews, Sipahi's and Sultan's other specific household cavalry and infantry within it.

They are more than a small personal bodyguard army, Kapıkulu had both Gulams, and Turcomans (Sipahis or other cavalry) in its large army system.

It is not obviously true, they were especially picked from the sons of nobles or other important families; the Ottomans considered all its subjects not by blood, civic rank, or by their nation or religion; but their distinctive, unique properties. So Ottomans evaluated its subjects with their own features, their personal expertises. A simple slave could climb through the ranks and could achieve to be the top of the administration (being a Grand Vizier). Or a very strong governor could be stripped of all his titles and valuables; and could not rebel for this. All are dependent to the individuals' performance, to be better or worse.

So the Ottomans did not consider any individual, if he was noble or not, if he was muslim, greek, catholic or not. They are all at least humans and they are their subjects. Ottomans rule them very well, there was total justice in the administration. Also the all were picked by their properties, that's all. When this system was corrupted, backings were started (for example Albanians supported each other in the administration, giving the titles to one nation; with addition to Jews, Arabs, Armenians...) the Ottomans begun to decline.

[Ansar Warrior]

@Ansar Warrior,
please read my message again:



They are more than a small personal bodyguard army, Kapıkulu had both Gulams, and Turcomans (Sipahis or other cavalry) in its large army system.

It is not obviously true, they were especially picked from the sons of nobles or other important families; the Ottomans considered all its subjects not by blood, civic rank, or by their nation or religion; but their distinctive, unique properties. So Ottomans evaluated its subjects with their own features, their personal expertises. A simple slave could climb through the ranks and could achieve to be the top of the administration (being a Grand Vizier). Or a very strong governor could be stripped of all his titles and valuables; and could not rebel for this. All are dependent to the individuals' performance, to be better or worse.

So the Ottomans did not consider any individual, if he was noble or not, if he was muslim, greek, catholic or not. They are all at least humans and they are their subjects. Ottomans rule them very well, there was total justice in the administration. Also the all were picked by their properties, that's all. When this system was corrupted, backings were started (for example Albanians supported each other in the administration, giving the titles to one nation; with addition to Jews, Arabs, Armenians...) the Ottomans begun to decline.

Sorry but I have to take objection to your claim, Kapikulu is I agree a name for the Sultans top tier forces but it is also used to identify the Heavy cavalry that guarded him in battle and were his house guards that were allowed to remain armed at all times unlike the Jannisaries who were stripped of their weapons in peace time and as they were his best and most trusted troops they carry the name Kapikulu unlike the other groups within the Kapikulu system (Sipahi, Ghulams) who had individual names to identify them.

Further more your suggestion that they were not picked from favoured families and nobles does not ring true, a guard of that stature is be trusted at all times and it would not make sense for them to be picked at random, Heavy Cavalry is traditionally in almost every culture the area of the military that nobles and favoured citizens enter, I have a book about the Ottoman military and can look this up if needed.

[Hawkerx]

Eee mod makers what you think add this unit in the mod ?

[Tureuki]

Technically Kapıkulu organization evolved from the previous Ghulam organization but almost totally different systems.

Kapıkulu Sipahis have mixed origin, both devshirmes and as far as I know sons of nobles etc. entered, for example Ottomans took many Turkomans to units when they're accepted to give up their revolts.

[Farwest]

Gulam is meaning Young Boy, in its Arabic origin.

Kapı-kulu is meaning Servant of the Gate, or Warden of the Gate by its Turkic origin and word by word meaning.

They are totally different. Both by system, and word meanings.

[Tureuki]

I was talking about they systems, words are of course different.

[Tureuki]

Its already said, Kapıkulu is out of our timeframe.

There is already Ghulams in that role.

[Hawkerx]

but jannisarys out the timeframe and this guys not name kapıkulu I find this name

[Tureuki]

We will remove Janissaries too.

As I said there is Ghulams in that role.

[Ansar Warrior]

Well it looks like if I want to play with the Jannisary or Kapikulu I'll just have to play 2.3.

Although I do admit the idea of a real Seljuk of Rum army for that time period is starting to grow on me.