Loke-Innas Rim: Price to cost

[ThePhd]

Loke-Innas Rim are the most expensive cavalry in the game. They cost 1250, more than swan knights and mountain trolls. Yet they have stats weaker than serpent guards. I did some tests and the Loke Innas Rim lost consistently to swan knights, royal guard, serpent guards, arnor knights, and occasionaly against earls, and eored heavy lancers. They also lack shields so ap destroys them.

I just want to know if this was done on purpose or if it is an accident. It seems a little odd that the most expensive cav unit is only mediocre.

[Cauis Cosades]

Well Rhun is already OP'ed and they have the (probably) the best economy in the game so they probably should have higher unit prices for balance reasons
Also I don't know much about lore but maybe it was more difficult to acquire trained horses and horsemen in Rhun???

[Nemesis_GR]

Get RC.It is a submod that improves game balance and units stats considerably.Click the link on my signature.hf

[Santeri]

As you see there is thread complaining Harad and Rhun to be overpowered so it's probably made on purpose

[k/t]

The stats in the vanilla version of every mod I've seen are rather random and based on nothing other than gut feeling of what they "should" be. RR/RC is definitely the way to go.

[FC Groningen]

They are dressed in gold, what did you expect?

Keep in mind Rhun's economy; they relatively cost less as in general Rhun has more money to go around than any others. Consider it inflation.

[C.Maximus]

They are still using the cataphract way of warfare... Ever take a unit of expensive catafracts and launch them at some european knights? Same result even tho cata are way pricy... Catafracts were used as an anti infinity device not counter cav. I may be wrong but wasn't the whole reason for the cataphract was to counter heavy infantry deployed by the Greeks and later the Romans? Use them to smash up infinity and sic spearman at the knights.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

They are still using the cataphract way of warfare... Ever take a unit of expensive catafracts and launch them at some european knights? Same result even tho cata are way pricy... Catafracts were used as an anti infinity device not counter cav. I may be wrong but wasn't the whole reason for the cataphract was to counter heavy infantry deployed by the Greeks and later the Romans? Use them to smash up infinity and sic spearman at the knights.

Cataphracts were the result historically of several types of cavalry warfare coming together. The first people to use armored horses (at least West of the Himalayas) were Sakae, Scythian, and Sarmatian nomadic peoples. It is likely that the armor on the horses was meant to discourage arrows from killing or injuring the horse a warrior would be mounted on. Clearly steppe peoples were not worried about breaking up infantry formations.

The settled Iranian peoples living to the south of the steppe were in constant contact with nomadic raiders and were probably influenced by them to apply horse armor to their cavalry contingents as well. However, the Aechaminids did not field any native cataphract cavalry, at least AFAIK.

Finally, when the Greeks went east under Alexander, they brought the cavalry tactics the Macedonians had developed along with them, helping to form the basis for later cataphracts employed by several Successor states, the Armenians, and the Parthians among others. The Parthians developed cataphract armaments further leading the way to the later super-heavy cavalry of the Sassanids and Eastern Roman/Byzantine Empire.

It is worth noting that European Knights actually have a much better track record against infantry than cataphracts do. Some of this may be due to lack of discipline among Medieval armies, but the only successful record of cataphracts routing organized infantry in a charge that I can think of is the battle of Magnesia. And those cataphracts were Greek.

[Nemesis_GR]

You are right Sir!That's why RC cataphacts have considerably lower attack/charge values compared to western knights but they get more armor/lower ms.(SS scholarioi and Tatw lok innas rim).hf

[k/t]

According to tests I've read about, Scholarii crush most Western cavalry.

[Nemesis_GR]

Scholarioi(Byzantine Cataphacts) crush all western cavalry and even win against french lancers because they have maces(AP) as secondary weapon.But they have lower ms,higher heat penalty and lower charging stats.

Lok-Innas Rim are based to the real life Cataphacts.Imo they are well represented in RC-they are one of the best cavalry units in tatw.hf

Edit reason:our beloved grammar nazi k/t

[k/t]

You can win a game, but you can't win your opponent. You can win against him, though.

Loke-Innas are great for combat and crushing an enemy unit, but they're #!$@#* slow. Definitely bring some of the light cavalry along if you actually want to flank the enemy and catch routers.

[C.Maximus]

Well the charge us what I mostly was talking about when comparing ten to western knights... Knights.. Like gondor and Dale.. Are shock charge cav which their initial strike is what their stong point is... The cataract is meant to bash and smash with their heavy armor... Also these cataracts are usig scimitars and not maces... Although a scimitar or falcion... If made and swung right can have nearly the same effect on armor as a mace.. But might break much sooner

[k/t]

Rhun's cavalry is very strong. I haven't yet seen the cataphracts fight Dol Amroth Knights or the best Rohan cavalry, but they lost horribly against Eldar Lancers.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type Kataphracts
dictionary Kataphracts ; Kataphracts, Elite
category cavalry
class heavy
voice_type Heavy
banner faction main_cavalry
banner holy crusade_cavalry
soldier rhunka, 30, 0, 1
officer rhun_captain_early_flag
mount eastern armoured horse ; +7 armor
mount_effect elephant -4, camel -4
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, very_hardy, can_withdraw, can_formed_charge, free_upkeep_unit, command
move_speed_mod 0.85
formation 1.5, 4.4, 3, 6, 2, square, wedge
stat_health 1, 3
stat_pri 8, 13, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 45, 1
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 12, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 15, 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 21, 5, 0, metal ; advanced lamellar + plates + horse armor
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 9
stat_ground -2, -3, -5, -2
stat_mental 16, disciplined, highly_trained, lock_morale
stat_charge_dist 45
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1760, 660, 75, 75, 1760, 4, 100

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type Earls
dictionary Earls ; Earls, Superior
category cavalry
class heavy
voice_type Heavy
banner faction main_cavalry
banner holy crusade
soldier earls, 24, 0, 1
officer dale_captain_early_flag
mount barded horse2 ; +2 armor
mount_effect elephant -4, camel -4
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_withdraw, can_formed_charge, free_upkeep_unit ; lazy nobles!
move_speed_mod 0.95
formation 2, 4.4, 3, 6, 3, square
stat_health 1, 3
stat_pri 10, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 45, 1
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 0, 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 16, 3, 3, metal ; +2 dwarf armor +2 barded horse
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 8
stat_ground -1, -2, -3, 0
stat_mental 14, impetuous, trained
stat_charge_dist 20
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 960, 380, 100, 100, 960, 4, 170

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

type Eldar Cavalry
dictionary Eldar_Cavalry ; Eldar Cavalry, Special
category cavalry
class heavy
voice_type Heavy
banner faction main_cavalry
banner holy crusade_cavalry
soldier Feudal_Knights, 16, 0, 1
officer highel_captain_early_flag
mount nazgul horse
mount_effect elephant -4, camel -4
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, very_hardy, can_withdraw, can_formed_charge, knight, free_upkeep_unit, command
move_speed_mod 1.1
formation 2, 4.4, 3, 6, 2, square, wedge
stat_health 1, 3
stat_pri 10, 13, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 30, 1 ; lance 1 + special 9 + eldar 1 + elf blade 1 - 1 large shield
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 15, 6, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 0, 1 ; sword 5 + 9 + 1 + 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 14, 9, 5, metal ; elven plate mail + nazgul horse
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 5
stat_ground -1, -2, -3, 0
stat_mental 22, disciplined, highly_trained, lock_morale
stat_charge_dist 45
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2400, 660, 75, 75, 2080, 4, 100

[k/t]

They don't have considerably lower attack/charge values. They're just slower.

[DatwasbullXX]

They don't have considerably lower attack/charge values. They're just slower.

However, they still do have a lower charge in vanilla TATW. At least as of 3.2
. I actually changed their stats because of that.