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Thread: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

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    Default U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    http://www.stripes.com/news/in-europ...eeves-1.170664
    HEIDELBERG, Germany — The Army’s top enlisted soldier warned U.S. Army Europe senior noncommissioned officers that conditions in the Army are “eerily similar” to those at the end of the Vietnam War, when the Army became known for drug abuse, disciplinary problems and incompetence.

    “Do you want a force similar to 1975, or do you want a force similar to 2011?” said Sgt. Maj. of the Army Raymond F. Chandler III. “You’re going to have the hard call on who’s not going to be able to stay in the Army. I hope you’re not going to stumble into that.”

    Under guidelines that went into effect this month, E-6s and above might not be given the option to re-enlist if they have certain negative marks on their service records; others could have to retrain for other jobs.

    Last month, as part of the Pentagon’s announced plans to cut spending by close to $500 billion over the next decade, the Army said it would cut 10,000 soldiers in fiscal 2013 and a total of 72,000 over the next five years.

    In a blunt talk to about 50 senior sergeants, Chandler told them standards had slipped in order to field enough troops as the country fought two wars, that they were all responsible, and that the decline had to be turned around. “We had to grow the Army,” he said. “Now it’s time to make some changes. We’ve allowed ourselves to get out of control.”

    As evidence, Chandler, whose last assignment was commandant of the Army Sergeants Major Academy, said that half the sergeants enrolled in drill sergeant school or recruiter school “either don’t show up or can’t pass the PT (physical fitness) test.”

    Chandler also said that despite a variety of programs to address sexual harassment and assault, despite “videos, briefings and posters,’’ the number of sexual assaults had remained high. “This is bull----,” Chandler said. “That’s us; it’s not some program director in the Department of the Army.

    “Hazing – the same thing,” Chandler continued, mentioning low-crawling and troops being forced to drink water until they vomited. “Stupid s--- we’ve done that has at least contributed to suicides. It’s unconscionable. It’s not to be tolerated because that’s not what professionals do.
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    “So what are you doing? Not saying — doing? Roll your sleeves up and be like a squad leader. Not ripping their faces off – sitting down and counseling them.”

    Chandler also criticized highly visible and sometimes offensive tattoos – and sergeants for not counseling their troops against getting such tattoos.

    Some of those top sergeants may themselves be targets in the Army’s plan to reduce troop levels. The reduction in force will be accomplished through several measures, Chandler said: reduced recruitment, early retirements for higher-ranking sergeants whose promotion prospects are slim, and reducing how long soldiers may remain at a given rank without being promoted.

    Changing the retention points for sergeants and staff sergeants, he said, would mean 1,800 fewer soldiers.

    Commands will be instructed to retain a certain percentage of troops as the Army reduces. “However, unlike in the past, commanders will not exceed this objective,” a memo that Chandler, Army Chief of Staff Raymond Odierno and Army Secretary John McHugh recently sent out. “This is not intended to be a race to meet the target — it is about retaining quality and keeping the right soldiers in the Army.”

    Or as Chandler said, “The program will shift from retaining as many soldiers as we can to retaining only those soldiers with the greatest potential.”

    Accordingly, last month the Army issued new retention initiatives barring re-enlistment to troops, who, in the last enlistment period, had gotten in trouble for illegal drugs or alcohol, were absent without leave for more than 96 hours and other infractions. Additionally, some staff sergeants and above may not re-enlist if they were relieved for cause or received a “fair” or lower rating in their performance review.

    Further, troops whose military jobs are over strength — tankers, for example, or truck drivers, must be willing and able to train for new jobs to be considered for re-enlistment.

    But staff sergeants and higher with 10 years or more of service are not subject to those rules. Since 1998, such troops have had indefinite enlistment contracts. Substandard sergeants in that category will be subject to evaluation boards, Chandler said.

    In an interview after his talk to the NCOs, Chandler said the Army would also be checking its databases to flag soldiers with repeated misconduct, including nearly 5,000 soldiers who committed multiple felonies while on active duty.

    That could occur, he said “because as an Army we had some breakdowns in accountability for our soldiers.”

    He elaborated on his post-Vietnam War comparison, saying the similarities included coming out of a long, protracted war and reducing size, at the same time that alcohol and drug abuse and other at-risk behaviors had increased.

    “We spent a long time from 1975 to 1991 to get an Army that could do what it did in Desert Shield and Desert Storm,” he said. “The NCO corps needs to step up and take charge.”

    My first thoughts on this was "Thank God". Living in a town close to a large Army Base, I get to see the worst the Army has to offer when the soldiers come to the bar district. Drunken brawls and arrests on servicemen are pretty commonplace and the soldiers have gotten a pretty bad reputation these last few years.

    Of course we also really appreciate what they've done for the country and generally enjoy having them in the area when they aren't fighting or stabbing each other to death. I'm very happy to see the SMA looking to improve the quality of soldier in the army. It can only improve relations in this country, and will no doubt cut back on the number of incidents in which idiots manage to make the country look bad overseas as well. Thoughts about this by current or former service members would be appreciated. I would like to hear your opinion on these cuts and the SMA's comments on the current level of discipline in our Army.

  2. #2
    Nevins's Avatar Semper Gumby
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    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    I call BS on the Vietnam parallels. One thing that destroyed the military as far as the drug abuse and related issues was that the military was simply not trusted as it once was and recruiters got desperate. The opposite is now true, the standards for admittance into even the enlisted side have been significantly increased since even pre 9/11 levels, so its not as if we are going to be taking in people with a history of drug use people with the kinds of mental issues that lead to drug abuse.

    Overall, I am happy that all the services are being downsized. There is no current justification for the current force size and spending so much now is simply going to handicap us in the future.
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    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    pffft,, when are Sergeants Major/1sgts NOT telling NCO's they need to step up? I promise you there was some a-hole at Thermopylae yelling at the Spartan versions of the NCO to "get their together" in the most vague terms possible.

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    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    Quote Originally Posted by s.rwitt View Post
    pffft,, when are Sergeants Major/1sgts NOT telling NCO's they need to step up? I promise you there was some a-hole at Thermopylae yelling at the Spartan versions of the NCO to "get their together" in the most vague terms possible.
    Lochagos: "Decadarchos Learchos you stupid piece of , get your ing file in order or I'll sodomize you with my spear."

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    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    “Stupid s--- we’ve done that has at least contributed to suicides. It’s unconscionable. It’s not to be tolerated because that’s not what professionals do."

    Do professionals also cuss like sailors when giving an interview, Sergeant Chandler?

  6. #6

    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    Quote Originally Posted by Severus Snape View Post
    “Stupid s--- we’ve done that has at least contributed to suicides. It’s unconscionable. It’s not to be tolerated because that’s not what professionals do."

    Do professionals also cuss like sailors when giving an interview, Sergeant Chandler?
    Not an interview. Not sure if serious about cursing in the military.

    Quote Originally Posted by s.rwitt View Post
    pffft,, when are Sergeants Major/1sgts NOT telling NCO's they need to step up? I promise you there was some a-hole at Thermopylae yelling at the Spartan versions of the NCO to "get their together" in the most vague terms possible.
    True, but there's a bit of a difference between yelling at people for grooming standards or paperwork and an Army wide cut of personnel. This is pretty big news.
    Last edited by Ó Cathasaigh; March 06, 2012 at 09:45 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    Quote Originally Posted by Severus Snape View Post
    “Stupid s--- we’ve done that has at least contributed to suicides. It’s unconscionable. It’s not to be tolerated because that’s not what professionals do."

    Do professionals also cuss like sailors when giving an interview, Sergeant Chandler?
    It's called a briefing, and they're called sergeants.
    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    How about we define the rights that allow a government to say that isn't within my freedom.

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    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    Quote Originally Posted by Severus Snape View Post
    “Stupid s--- we’ve done that has at least contributed to suicides. It’s unconscionable. It’s not to be tolerated because that’s not what professionals do."

    Do professionals also cuss like sailors when giving an interview, Sergeant Chandler?
    If you outlawed swearing in the military, the military would be mute...
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

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    Lawrence of Arabia's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    If you outlawed swearing in the military, the military would be mute...
    God, yes.

    The Army's standards did slip before the housing market and banking industry imploded on itself in 2008. I saw it when I was enlisting in the Army in early '08 that they were waiving recruits with usually disqualifying DUI records and assault records because recruiting was at such a low. Ever since Q4 of 2009 though, enlistment numbers have been met easily. At this point, there can be as long as a 1 year wait list to even go to basic training.

    Good move, but everyone in the Army already knew this was going on.
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    Go on Farnan, go and help those despicable thugs you call our soldiers to kill some of the poorest people on the planet.
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    Don't you realize that it is a good thing that so many British soldiers have already been killed as punishment for the invasion?


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    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    It was expected considering the budget cuts. Some of the same thing is happening in the USMC. The whole "up or out" thing and all.

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    saglam2000's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    Well this seems rather interesting
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  12. #12

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    Lol my dad was in the army during.Vietnam. when the soldiers start smoking weed with the NCOs, they have 10 acre illegal pot fields outside of base, they steal deuce and a halves filled with stolen equipment and even sell the truck......


    NO WAY the modern military compares to that era. Just talk to ANYONE who served then. Its an idiotic comparison based in absolute fantasy.
    Swear filters are for sites run by immature children.

  13. #13

    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    The French Foreign Legion will be happy. How long before 2 REP becomes '2 REP Airborne', just as it used to be '2 REP Para.'?

  14. #14

    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    The Foreign Legion has rather high standards for recruits.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  15. #15

    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    Of course they decrease the number of soldiers.


    Unregistered, lowlife contractors are the way to go now when dealing with 'national threats'.

  16. #16
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    Of course they decrease the number of soldiers.


    Unregistered, lowlife contractors are the way to go now when dealing with 'national threats'.
    You're one of those guys that sees the word "contractor" and thinks it means security contractor aren't you? That's cute.

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    Nevins's Avatar Semper Gumby
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    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    Quote Originally Posted by MrExpendable View Post
    Of course they decrease the number of soldiers.


    Unregistered, lowlife contractors are the way to go now when dealing with 'national threats'.
    Quote Originally Posted by s.rwitt View Post
    You're one of those guys that sees the word "contractor" and thinks it means security contractor aren't you? That's cute.
    Of course. They are all Blackwater, right? Or Xe, whatever it is, I forget.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    Quote Originally Posted by s.rwitt View Post
    You're one of those guys that sees the word "contractor" and thinks it means security contractor aren't you? That's cute.
    Didn't see the word anywhere in the article (only 'contract'), so I don't know where you are referring to. But yeah, I meant those mercenaries. Did you know that about 1.2 billion of the expenditures of the Iraqi invasion were invested into these security contractors?

    I know that the word 'contractor' can apply to many other functions. But here I'm referring to armed mercenaries specifically. English isn't my native language, so excuse me if I used the word in a wrong way.
    Last edited by MrExpendable; March 07, 2012 at 03:27 AM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    Military fiction has conditioned me to two types of mercenaries, the competent robots and the expendables.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  20. #20

    Default Re: U.S. Army to decrease size; SMA calls for NCO's to roll up sleeves

    BWUH? The army is on the verge of becoming like that in Vietnam? In Vietnam almost 5% of all servicemembers were doing heroin, another percentage were smoking marijuana, another percentage were habitually going AWOL or refusing orders.... in the field! Where is this even remotely close to happening in Afghanistan? I'm going to have to have a talk with these Stripes people, they almost made me spit mouthwash all over my monitor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence of Arabia
    At this point, there can be as long as a 1 year wait list to even go to basic training.
    I waited a year to even get a contract...
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