NTW3|Version 2.0 Released

[Col.KanKrusha]

Areas which could be improved

1. In SP, AI opponent still starts out some battles clustered into a giant ball. Once the AI gets going and shakes itself out, it does quite well, however. I have been hard-pressed by AI on at least one occasion, and I'm only about 14 turns in to the campaign.

I have used this AI in other mods. Sometimes it needs a little help to get started. Don't take advantage of it and use a unit of light cavalry to attack then withdraw. Once engaged the AI will sort itself out, form up properly and counter-attack.

Edit- this is a vanilla issue not the UAI's fault, but this fix works quite well with the UAI

Try to resist the temptation to pound it with artillery while it is confused. Well worth it for a decent battle (okay, so I can't help myself sometimes )

[Mr. Stuka]

I love you guys.

[MA5C 7RUTH]

Why is this not on the main page!

[oberst_ag]

Why is this not on the main page!

Agreed.
Great work lords .

Captain zeb

[mAIOR]

Made some MP battles today a 2vs2 (well 1vs2 as my partner sadly disconnected) and a 1vs1. I find the British a bit OP for the price. Sure they're not great at melee but their second battalion for example costs 25 more than French normal line and has 30 accuracy and 70 reload and only ten less soldiers. That makes their infantry nigh unbeatable... Also, I find that casualties for skirmishers are a bit too high. I thought those guys were supposed to be hard to hit.

Be it as it may this is the best mod for mp battles by far. Good job!
Ah almost forgot, cannister is still too deadly.



Cheers...

[The Iron Duke98]

Man this is cool!

[panzer 4]

ah finally, a mod which gives the ottomans their justice!

thank you

[samthegreat4]

Made some MP battles today a 2vs2 (well 1vs2 as my partner sadly disconnected) and a 1vs1. I find the British a bit OP for the price. Sure they're not great at melee but their second battalion for example costs 25 more than French normal line and has 30 accuracy and 70 reload and only ten less soldiers. That makes their infantry nigh unbeatable... Also, I find that casualties for skirmishers are a bit too high. I thought those guys were supposed to be hard to hit.

Be it as it may this is the best mod for mp battles by far. Good job!
Ah almost forgot, cannister is still too deadly.



Cheers...

Give me a source that says cannister shot was not as deadly .
I for one can't imagine that cannister wasn't as deadly as this game makes it seem.

[panzer 4]

canister shot is what destroyed the Janissaries, so yeah, i think it is deadly

[The Iron Duke98]

do i need to download both map pack and the main installer? cause i downloaded the main installer and i was going to play waterloo historical and then i clicked "where is Blucher?" and then it crashes,
any idea why? but i think this is at least best mod in the world for ntw!

[[N]Tac]

Yes the map pack is required,install map pack after the main game has been installed.

[mAIOR]

Give me a source that says cannister shot was not as deadly .
I for one can't imagine that cannister wasn't as deadly as this game makes it seem.

Depends on the distance and on the weight of the cannon. At Auerstadt the french captured a Prussian battery even after six volleys of cannister. a 6pdr gun firing cannister at 100m owuld be less efficient than a battalion volley. Many bullets would hit the ground or overshoot plus, cannister only hits the front ranks. Point blank would be devastating but long range fire pretty ineffective.

EDIT: Also in testing, cannister from a 6 pounder had an accuracy of 13% vs a target 1.9m high and 30m wide at 228.6 meters (300 paces) 12 pounder was 14%. battalion volley was 25% now knowing that in battle it was more like 1/500 hit rate for muskets at these distances (approximately max range in NTW3) and considering the same relation applies you have approximately a 1/1000 hit rate. So cannister at long range was not effective at all.

EDIT2: According to Haythornthwaite in battle, results varied. At smolensk four squares were under fire for three hours by 12 guns and only suffered 119 casualties. On the other hand, at Austerlitz Lannes suffered 400 casualties in 3 minutes by 40 guns. It all depends on the range. Tests were made using solid targets so you had to consider troop spacing in the equation and soldiers being hit by multiple shots as well.

Maybe a database for these examples should be created. to gather every case known to all of us in order to try and reach a conclusion. Battle situations that is.


Cheers...

[mAIOR]

I noticed British 2nd battalion units have the same shooting stats as French Chasseurs and cost 150 less... is a British depot battalion really as good at shooting as French light infantry? Plus, they have better melee stats so why are they so cheap? maybe light infantry overall should have reduced price no? And maybe British units should be toned down a bit no? maybe making 2nd battalion have less 10 in reloading down to 60 and 1st having 10 lower as well down to 70. Or just increase their price accordingly. As it is, it's like having an army filled with elite units...



Cheers...

[Avon_Ulysses]

I noticed British 2nd battalion units have the same shooting stats as French Chasseurs and cost 150 less... is a British depot battalion really as good at shooting as French light infantry? Plus, they have better melee stats so why are they so cheap? maybe light infantry overall should have reduced price no? And maybe British units should be toned down a bit no? maybe making 2nd battalion have less 10 in reloading down to 60 and 1st having 10 lower as well down to 70. Or just increase their price accordingly. As it is, it's like having an army filled with elite units...

The enhanced reload of the British is to simulate their 2 rank firing formation, this gave them more firepower than the equivalent number of continental troops. Who fought 3 ranks deep, the 3rd rank not being able to fire.

I think you will find that the French fusiliers have a higher charge & defence value than the Brit' 2nd battalion melee & morale are the same. Also the Brit unit costs 25 MORE (375) than the French (350).
The French also has the advantage of fatigue resistance & greater numbers.

[mAIOR]

The enhanced reload of the British is to simulate their 2 rank firing formation, this gave them more firepower than the equivalent number of continental troops. Who fought 3 ranks deep, the 3rd rank not being able to fire.

I think you will find that the French fusiliers have a higher charge & defence value than the Brit' 2nd battalion melee & morale are the same. Also the Brit unit costs 25 MORE (375) than the French (350).
The French also has the advantage of fatigue resistance & greater numbers.

Well, maybe you're right. But they still outshoot everything. I've rechecked and they have better reload than light infantry (70 vs 65). But if they deploy in two ranks can't you just stretch them? Also, wouldn't they take longer to form square and be more vulnerable to cavalry? I made an army build with the British and it's scary. As I said, it looks like they can outshoot everything with the penalty of having 10 less soldiers (which is not much really).
I'll need to test this a bit more




Cheers...

[Avon_Ulysses]

Well, maybe you're right. But they still outshoot everything. I've rechecked and they have better reload than light infantry (70 vs 65). But if they deploy in two ranks can't you just stretch them? Also, wouldn't they take longer to form square and be more vulnerable to cavalry? I made an army build with the British and it's scary. As I said, it looks like they can outshoot everything with the penalty of having 10 less soldiers (which is not much really).
I'll need to test this a bit more

Yes, you should stretch them to fight 2 ranks deep. If you do this & face a simular length line of (say) French troops 3 ranks deep you will find the firepower roughly even. Al though the 3 deep will eventfully win through numbers.
Unfortunately the game (as modded) does not restrict firing to a maximum of 2 ranks, generally 3 ranks can fire.

But to fight the British one should not engage in an even numbers shootout. Use cannon or skirmishers to weaken their small units. Or try to gain cavalry superiority (not easy). Then, when they are diminished, charge in to take advantage of their lower defence value.

Having said that, I acknowledge that the Brit’s are probably the toughest faction in the mod, if you try to beat them at their own game. This matches my understanding of these (generally) well trained troops (at least from 1809 on).
We are looking at balance issues, If there are problems we will fix them.

[Liberalis Bellatricus]

Don't forget the numbers also, 113 for brits and 123 for ze french !

do i need to download both map pack and the main installer? cause i downloaded the main installer and i was going to play waterloo historical and then i clicked "where is Blucher?" and then it crashes,
any idea why? but i think this is at least best mod in the world for ntw!

Install both packs. For Historical battles, click the HB button in the NTW3 Manager. Choose your scenario.
Go to lan battles host a game and add cpu. Voilà. In some battles you can control up to 80 units, maybe more, can't remember for sure.

[Kaunitz]

Depends on the distance and on the weight of the cannon. At Auerstadt the french captured a Prussian battery even after six volleys of cannister. a 6pdr gun firing cannister at 100m owuld be less efficient than a battalion volley. Many bullets would hit the ground or overshoot plus, cannister only hits the front ranks. Point blank would be devastating but long range fire pretty ineffective.

EDIT: Also in testing, cannister from a 6 pounder had an accuracy of 13% vs a target 1.9m high and 30m wide at 228.6 meters (300 paces) 12 pounder was 14%. battalion volley was 25% now knowing that in battle it was more like 1/500 hit rate for muskets at these distances (approximately max range in NTW3) and considering the same relation applies you have approximately a 1/1000 hit rate. So cannister at long range was not effective at all.

EDIT2: According to Haythornthwaite in battle, results varied. At smolensk four squares were under fire for three hours by 12 guns and only suffered 119 casualties. On the other hand, at Austerlitz Lannes suffered 400 casualties in 3 minutes by 40 guns. It all depends on the range. Tests were made using solid targets so you had to consider troop spacing in the equation and soldiers being hit by multiple shots as well.

Maybe a database for these examples should be created. to gather every case known to all of us in order to try and reach a conclusion. Battle situations that is.


Cheers...

Some thoughts on this topic can be found here (post # 155 onwards). My conclusion: cannister (in terms of "physical" damage) is much less effective than I've initially thought.

[mAIOR]

Some thoughts on this topic can be found here (post # 155 onwards). My conclusion: cannister (in terms of "physical" damage) is much less effective than I've initially thought.

And a very nice day to you as well
Check out my initial research on the subject here

[Aikanár]

Congrats to the release, keep up the good work